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July 2007 Stats for The Big Picture.
Last night the United American Committee, and the College Republicans of University of California Irvine, held a panel discussion regarding the Danish Cartoons, including an unveiling of the cartoons themselves.
My friend Laura Wallick and I went in order to support free speech in America, and to support our friend, UAC founder Jesse Petrilla.
It turned out the event was so packed (capacity of the UC Irvine auditorium was 450) that we couldn't get in, which left us free to document the very interesting behavior of the crowd of Islamists protesting the event outside. One police officer we spoke to estimated the Islamist protesters as numbering about 1,000.
This image is merged from two smaller photos.
They had evidently decided that their PR approach was to accuse the College Republicans of "hate speech."
A very clever ploy. But how dare they, when all over the world, Islamists are cutting off people's heads, killing women and children, taking people hostage and murdering them, threatening genocide against Jews and carrying out genocide against Muslims in Darfur, and regularly broadcasting hate speech on TV in various Arabic countries? These protesters could easily have condemned those actions; then their pretense that they were in favor of peace, and against hate speech, might mean something.
Not one of the Islamist speakers I heard, said a single word against any of the actions I have just itemized. What was particularly shocking was that not one speaker I heard condemned the burning of embassies or the killing of people which took place during the cartoon riots.
On the contrary -- at least one speaker supported those riots as making her point. Bear in mind that the speaker was a college-age girl, who sounded very nice, until one listened to what she was saying. She said (from my handwritten notes):
They've seen what happened all over the world. What would make a group even show these cartoons except to stir up hate?
This speaker did not condemn the violence, the embassy-burnings, the deaths, which appeared to be intended to threaten the free world with violence unless we abandoned our free speech. Instead, she considered the cartoon riots a useful thing that should persuade the free world to abandon free speech; her view was that free speech should be surrendered in favor of speech deemed acceptable by Islam.
Look at those signs. "Islam -- The Religion of Peace" -- pretending ignorance of the worldwide jihadist murders. And right next to that a sign saying, "College Republicans The New KKK" -- comparing College Republicans to actual terrorists, the KKK. Another sign reads, "Unveiling Discrimination" -- when it is part of Sharia law that all non-Muslims must pay a special tax, have reduced legal rights, and be second-class citizens, or be killed, or convert to Islam. Who are they kidding with these hypocritical signs?
Or the fourth sign pictured above -- "Free Speech [does not equal] Hate Speech" -- when hate speech is broadcast daily in Islamic nations. And note that the sign opposes free speech of which Islam disapproves and defines as "Hate Speech" -- in this case, even the cartoons. In other words, you can say anything you want, as long as Islamists approve of it.
Make no mistake, this protest is against free speech, and against the U.S. Constitution which guarantees it.
Want to know what some of the other speakers said? Again, bear in mind that the speakers are for the most part college students attending U.C. Irvine.
They frame it as freedom of speech, but we have evolved above freedom of speech, beyond hate speech.
In other words, speech unacceptable to Muslims, say these protesters, is not to be permitted in America.
This is the same anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism that they're propagating in there, that has given rise to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay, and the anti-immigrant racism that is spreading all across the U.S.
Of course, it isn't racism, because it has nothing to do with genetics. The event they protested was about defending our rights to free speech as guaranteed by our Constitution.
An event in support of free speech, these Islamists attack as "racism." It's as violent as they can get short of physical violence. The hate speech is theirs. These protesters want to see happen here, what the Islamists have done so successfully in England and France.
Laura and I walked to a Chinese restaurant and had dinner. When we came back, this is what we saw:
Given what appears to be the tacit approval by their speakers of Islamist violence in the cartoon riots, I don't think they were praying for world peace, or for peace, love and understanding.
#1
#2He’s thinking: “Who farted?”
#3Equilivent:
Someone smoking canibis to protest legalising it in the UK.
They should all pratice what they preech and stop using freedom of speech to protest against freedom of speech. If they dont like it, they should “GET THE HELL OUT”.
#4i was there and it was a really well done event. for the most part the speakers kept on point and shared good info. i wish there were more manners from people on both sides of the topic. the muslims and their opponents inside the room that protested were foolish and rude.
i didn’t like the glares and stares, and most of all racial slurs uttered by those protesting on the other side of the gate.
it goes with the territory though.
big kudos to the UC - Irvine CR’s too.
very impressive Ms. Lucero.
#5Thank you so so much for writing this! You are a hero
You say the truth.
Friday, this UCLA club is planning to do the same event:
http://ucla.clublogic.org/home/
and so are these organizations in the future:
#6Eric,
Thanks very much for the compliment, and the links. I really appreciate it.
#7Congratulations for exemplifying ignorance and extreme bias. You claim that the program set up by the Student Republicans was a form of free speech, then why must the free speech expressed by the Muslim Students be considered differently. In regards to your skewed interpretation of what the female speaker meant when she said “They’ve seen what happened all over the world. What would make a group even show these cartoons except to stir up hate?” have you possibly considered that she meant that the cartoons have stirred violence worldwide and riots, although it is not to be condonned for, however it shows an interesting point. If the Student Republicans intended to bring this event to the UCI campus, they would have not advertised the event as they would have. Now I’m sure that you probably have no idea what I am referring to because unlike me you are not a student at UC Irvine. But Im sure that is altogether irrelevent to you because you are a “hero” according to that UCLA student.
#8Both groups are free to say and discuss anything as long as they don’t threaten anyone. The difference between the two forms of speech is that one is correct (based on facts, not ignorance) and the other is false (based on blind faith). It is morally appropriate to favor the truth and the good, and to condemn the false and the evil.
The people protesting were against free speech, yet used free speech.
All groups should be able to advertise anything as long as it doesn’t threaten other people.
I am not a UCLA student, I am going to UCI next year so that I can stage as many events as I possibly can like the one described so I can be a hero like Vik Rubenfeld.
#9You claim that the program set up by the Student Republicans was a form of free speech, then why must the free speech expressed by the Muslim Students be considered differently.
You are making the classic mistake of saying that because I disagree with them I am opposing the right to free speech. By this logic no one could ever disagree with anyone. By your logic, you would have to say that you yourself are opposing my right to free speech, to say what I think of the arguments used by the Islamists.
...have you possibly considered that she meant that the cartoons have stirred violence worldwide and riots, although it is not to be condonned for...
She didn’t say one word opposing the violence committed by Islamists. You may wish she’d said that - but she didn’t.
#10Eric, thanks so much for these words. I really appreciate it.
The people protesting were against free speech, yet used free speech.
A fantastic point. Your entire post is great and is a powerful addition to this thread.
#11"You are making the classic mistake of saying that because I disagree with them I am opposing the right to free speech. By this logic no one could ever disagree with anyone. By your logic, you would have to say that you yourself are opposing my right to free speech, to say what I think of the arguments used by the Islamists.”
That argument is used way too often. It is more of a desperate plee - looking for something which most people support and attempt to twist your words and use them against you.
Nope, doesn’t work here!
#12Steven, you have stated that my argument twists words and “doesn’t work here”, but you have not yet said why you think that. Please support your statement.
Statements that an argument “doesn’t work”, with no supporting facts, examples, logic or evidence, are an example of what’s called on the Internet a ”troll”. Please bear in mind that it is the stated policy of this forum that comments which are trolls may be deleted.
#13you guy don’t know what the hell your talking about these stupid islams are retards
#14The islams need to pull their heads out of their asses and get a life in their own country.!! !!!!
#15In attempts to portray the Iraqis as anti-American and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the U.S. Information Service library and in synagogues. Soon leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel. . . . Although the Iraqi police later provided our embassy with evidence to show that the synagogue and library bombings, as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-American leaflet campaigns, had been the work of an underground Zionist organization, most of the world believed reports that Arab terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the Zionists had “rescued” really just in order to increase Israel’s Jewish population.
Wilbur Crane Eveland, a former senior officer in the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA),
#16you seem to have a little warped idea of history which you must have learned it in some backward village in northern punjab...I have been reading your posts from various places and you are qualified to speak about no subject so far as I can see.
You are totally UNQUALIFIED to speak a word about the Jews in Iraq......there are more than enough photos and evidence of how the Jews have been treated there.......you are an idiot to think everything is a Jewish or Zionist conspiracy...You give them the status of G-d Himself when you attribute to them so much power. Get real.
#17I wanted to ask if you were one of the ones demonstrating at the University against Brigitte Gabriel? I see where you emailed the auhtorities protesting her free speech rights at the University of Memphis?
#18You live in Memphis, and visit the mosques there; perhaps you have met with Maher and Haitham Ghawji, or Rafat Jamal Ghawjii, or Enaam Arnaout? These would be prominent muslims from Memphis that you might know.
Or, maybe you are part of the muslim brotherhood. You did mention it. You appear on eJobs in Romanian language (or Bulgarian?)...perhaps you are Bosnian? I am planning to uncover your public domain background, and the more I discover about you, the more convinced I am that you are a danger to us. The list of websites you frequent is appalling, as well as your declared hatred of Jews.
I wanted to ask if you were one of the ones demonstrating at the University against Brigitte Gabriel? I see where you emailed the authorities protesting her free speech rights at the University of Memphis.
In fact, I am amazed at the wide variety of forums you enter...the sindh/punjab sites, the foreign language sites, the iraqi sites, the American islamic-matters discussion sites...who really are you, a self-styled jihaddi poster child?
HOW DO YOU HAVE TIME TO RUN A JEWELRY STORE? Being in business at 47 requires your full time attention. I see that you travel often as well. Perhaps you carry money back and forth overseas ostensibly for jewelry purchases?
I have had small shops and businesses, and I know it requires more than 60 hours a week....certainly you have enough financial backing at 47 years old, to have LOTS OF TIME on your hands.
#19I think it’s time that every college in America require reading of the Koran, just to let our children know exactly what is in store for them unless they convert. The Koran, like “Mein Kampf” by Adolf Hitler, doesn’t mince words. In fact, some of the more popular words include “boiling in oil”, “cutting off hands and feet on opposite sides of the body”, and the like. The “religion of peace” will thus be unmasked by the prophet’s own diatribes.
#20Well, I’m gonna write this cause I’m troubling persecuting in my all life and even inside a program funded by american (mostly non muslim) aid at the mean time
Islam is a killing cancer, as non muslim people in the west give muslims the total freedom to live and speak about the good false view of islam to trick people to convert to islam without knowing what they are doing as most of them are far from their original and new religions, non muslims in muslim countries are forced to live in muslim rules, here bad talking about them in the streets and using mics.
for any one who converts from islam they say he/she must be killed as it’s one rule of islams rules
islamic rules and instructions through quran or whatever are full of hatred and instructions to kill non muslims with or without reasons, deal with them like animals and slaves as well as trying to convert them using force if it’s available, and when it’s not available for them till now in the west they are trying to convert them using other ways full of tricks and lies
regarding if islam is wrong or right, i think no god can disagree with himself in more than half of his book (quran) that’s what is called nasekh and mansoukh, this is one of the many many issues that muslims are trying to hide and fool others before they fool them selves
Islam since it’s start aims control people that’s the approach which Mohammed started and appears cross history
Islam is all the long againest all what is good in any way including arts, technology etc.. though they use them in fooling people specially media means
GOD save the world from the Islamic death
#21Strange it is, that men should admit the validity of the arguments for free discussion, but object to their being “pushed to an extreme;” not seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case, they are not good for any case...John Stuart Mill
#22#### U ALL THAT ARE AGAINST ISLAM!! ####### HATERS!
PEACE!
#23#22, your violent, curse-filled language indicates that your statement, "PEACE!", is not a call for tolerance, but a demand for submission. Your post appears to exemplify much of what is said about radical Islam.
#24I think no god can disagree with himself in more than half of his book (quran) that’s what is called nasekh and mansoukh, this is one of the many many issues that muslims are trying to hide.
#25With the Current Dead lock on what should be allowed in terms of freedom of speech ..
then i ask .. why is the denial of holucaust such a big issue if one denies it by merely saying it.. this should not be an issue with the US or UN .. since they support freedom of speech
and what about a reseach on the holocust .. saying that it did not happen or the Jews who died were less then 6million .. may be 1 million ..
then that too is just my opinion and i have the right to express it
what i donot understand is…
why is… Denial of holocuast a crime ... and why publishing of the Prophet’s Pictures freedom of Speech??
but are expressions of ones thoughts and if one should be allowed so should be the other.. ..
or better yet… there must be some restrictions on this open freedom with no reins that allows one to hurt the other ...
there are so many other things
1.denail of holocuast
2. Hitler’s book (Mein Kampf)
3.Mirror of the Polish Crown
4.On the Origins and Perpetual Use of the Legislative Powers of the Apostolic Kings of Hungary in Matters Ecclesiastical( banned in the vatican)
5.Perfidy
6.Quotations from Chairman Mao Zedong
7.Rights of Man
8.Suicide mode d’emploi
and so on.... should all of them not fall under the terms
"Freedom of Speech"
so why this partiality???/ when the key word here is Freedom ..
what most of us donot understand is .. that even thogh speech is free .. we should not excersize it as to cause hatred against certain people or to incite anger or to cause problems in the society ... so thus there must be certain laws that govern it
similar to Driving every man is free to drive but is not allowed to hit a person with the car nor destroy someones property with it…
every person has the right to keep a knife at his/her home.. but is not allowed to use it to kill someone weather with in his/her home or outside
for every freedom there must be some restraints or constraints
#26Amen to that.
#27THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO THERE OWN COUNTRY SAY THERE LITTLE PRAYERS AND GET THE HELL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#28Wow, Vik, I thought you said Jews and Christians were a religion of peace and love that resorted to prayer for their enemies and not contempt. Obiviously, you are a total hypocrite as everyone on this page says "get the hell," "get their heads out of their asses," "stupid retard Islams" (which by the way is a totally unintelligent comment...’Islams’? Seriously? Your whole website makes you look bad and you are losing more people on your side than you think you are winning.
Your people, as seen by your posts and the comments from others like you, go against everything you claim to believe in...peace and understanding.
#29"Sabrina M," you are posting here under two different names, and pretending to be two different people. Your posts, and the post from "Katrina Hill" (which not coincidentally expresses very similar views, and which was posted within 15 minutes of your post), both come from the identical IP address - 71.96.248.23.
#30you people are so offensive, how can you say something about a "way of life" -islam that you don’t even know about...i suggest you:
1)go and read the quran
2) sit in a lonely corner, and find out what life is about
3)find out if there is a creator.
4)get psychological therapy.
5)get a life.
6)get a wife.
7)inspect the critisms of democracy...is it really the right way?
8) dont judge a person by the appearance, get to know em.
9)Talk to a practicing muslim.
10) spot the critisms of other religions and ways of thinking
...THEN get back to me
=]
#31Ha ha Sabrina’s argument is so weak that she resorts to sock puppets.
I wonder if she is the same Sabrina whom I scared away from Beliefnet with my non-croyant persona by promising to report her assertion that the US deserves to have some cities nuked to her administration at Johns Hopkins, where claimed to be studying at the time.
After I posted that promise she never posted again. It delights me that she might have been terrified to lose her place - her privilege - in attending an American university.
#32Hey Alicerevert - I’ve read that toilet better known as the Qur’an, and I learned that Islam belongs on the trash heap of history.
Muslims can’t the fact that the West is superior to them by almost every measure, despite the fact that their Stone Age culture, with a veneer of monontheism copied from Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and Judaism - and sloppily at that - tells them that they should be ruling the world.
Alicerevert ("revert" - what a childish semantic ploy), pig blood be upon the illiterate pederast thug known as Muhammand whom you call your prophet.
It’s not suprising that he serves as the role model of the Ummah, considering that most of them are as illiterate as he was - and a good number are also as thuggish. You might have to go to Afghanistan and Iran for those who emulate his pederasty, after bending the rules and allowing for the children to be male.
#33I wonder then why 1.5 Million white american Christians have converted to Islam after 9/11 in USA (reported by CNN)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUbzJMQwoN0
and Citi Bank USA has launched a study a group to investigate Islamic Banking on the Note that Islamic Banking is much more Secure and Profitable
and Japan along with many western COuntries are investing Heavily in ISLAMIC Bonds ..
wonder if you all keep track of that ..
as for the others.. i wanted you to get all out of your system .. and throw what you can ..
now we love jesus .. to Christians many of the Miricales asociated to JEsus in the QUran might seem like something he did not do .. but there is no proof against it right..?? .. but no where in the QUran is Jesus PBUH defamed or cursed.. the only diffrences are as follows
1. JEsus was a PRophet and not the Begotten Son of God .. but a Spiritual Son of God like many mentioned in the Bible
as Jesus says .. My Father is in me and I in thee and we all are one
and as it is said .. those who toil in the way of the Lord shall be called the Children of God..
(im not sure if its those who suffer or those who toil or those who call to the way of God do forgive my mistake)
2. Jesus was not Crucified but it was made to seem like the Rabias and the Pharisees had him Crucified and Jesus was Raised up Alive to his Lord God and the GOd and Creator of the Entire Humanity.
my question still stands.. what do you my sametic Jewish Brother say of the one of the MOst powerfull Prophets of God the one and Alone .. what do you say of him .. would you die for him ... do you belive in him .. to you belive in the fact that he was the one who God sent as the King of Isreal and the Messiah .. we Muslims belive that
We belive that He Will return one day (The second COmming) and will Put right all the things and we wait anxiously every single day and pray that God send him soon so that we may wash his feet with our hair and Die for him against those who hate him
What do you JEws my Sametic Brotheren say of the Prophet that Lived Amongst you Jesus the SOn of Mary the Pure
#34anonymous - the numbers CNN cites have been shown to be incorrect:
Most mainstream media reports on the just-released survey from the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life are touting results showing that Americans are less religious, with over 16% saying they aren’t members of any religion.
But, while that’s important, there’s a far more important number in the survey, "U.S. Religious Landscape Survey," that you aren’t hearing about: the number of Muslims in America. Since 9/11, Muslims and their propaganda groups have repeatedly touted that their legions include 6-7 million Americans. In the past few years, they’ve invented a new number: 9 million.
But the Pew survey--and remember, Pew is a liberal outfit--found that only 0.6% are, in fact, Muslims, or 1.8 million out of 300,000,000 residents of America.
#35 could be
i just rellayed what i saw on one of the most watched Telivision Stations from USA
George Bernard Shaw:
"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."
(A Collection of writing of some of the eminent scholars, 1935).
------------------------------------------
Lamartine’s tribute to the Prophet:
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could claim to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad?"
Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
(Histoire de la Turquie, 1854 Vol. II pp. 276-277).
---------------------------------------
Gandhi:
"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life”.
(Young India, 1922).
I’d love to know what the kid is thinking.