| May 2008 | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| S | M | T | W | T | F | S |
| 1 | 2 | 3 | ||||
| 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
| 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 |
| 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 |
| 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 |
July 2007 Stats for The Big Picture.
As I've noted in the post The Memento Syndrome: Humanity's Short-Term Memory, we tend to think that anything that's relatively new in our lifetime, has never happened before. So this quote from John Quincy Adams on Islam, is revealing. From The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Robert Spencer, page 83:
John Quincy Adams on Islam:
"In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, [.....] Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST.- TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE.... Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant ... While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men."
(Capitals are in the original -- the boldfacing has been added for this blog post.)
The behavior of radical Islamist terrorists has nothing to do with Iraq or Israel. It's been going on since the seventh century.
Update 8-23-06: Commenter A.M. Whittaker posts the following quote about Islam:
Winston Churchill on Islam:
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
-- Sir Winston Spencer Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
#2This is fascinating, Mike. I’m going to post about it later this week.
#4Why does nobody ever mention that Mohammed himself ordered the assassination of several poets who mocked him? (Like Kaab Ibn Al Ashraf,Asma Bint Marwan, Abu Afak ...etc)
I think that is pretty significant in the current context.
#5This site is full of conservative losers: Allah Akbar bitches
#7<< ”Komani” appears to be an example of what this post is discussing. >>
Too funny. And too true.
But let’s face it. Those of us who identify ourselves as disciples of Jesus have not always been “little Christs”, as the term “Christian” means. People claiming to live under that banner have killed many, including Jews, Indians, etc.
Now I am in no way equating Christianity to the maniacal nonsense we’re seeing in the middle east or at the recent protests at the college at Irvine. People can say whatever they want about Christians, and we don’t start setting our cities on fire. But we need to acknowledge that those of us who live under the Cross are not always the best examples of what Jesus was trying to say or do, either.
I once had a Muslim call me, a born again believer, “brother”. Just like it’s wrong for the far left to equate all Christians with the loons of the past, it is also wrong to assume that all Muslims are hateful, dangerous people.
However, the college students at Irvine are obviously hypocrites in the extreme. That Islam has a very vocal, radical element would be foolish to deny.
That being said, I think that Islam has historically been spread through extreme violence has been well established. You’ve inspired me to want to investigate the history described here a bit further. All the more knowledge to shut my far left buds up.
#8Thanks very much, pootie tang. I really appreciate it.
#9Thank YOU Vik, for a great web site.
#10This explains why you see far fewer black women converting to Islam than black men. On some level they realize that to do so would be volunteering to become a slave. neil
#11When did JQA say this anyone know?
#12Flipside, the book in which Churchill said it, was published in 1899.
#13flipside,
Here is a comment from Andrew G. Bostom which appeared on frontpage.com. There are a lot of references here.
#14Salaam Walaykum. Peace be upon you. This is how muslims greet each other. This is how Jesus (peace be upon him) greeted his companions. I am a convert from Christianity to Islam. Like P. Tang said, I have always been taught through Islam that we refer to jews and christians as “brother”. In Islam we are taught that everyone else is your equal. Either our equal as muslims or our equal as in humanity. Well, just thought I’d say some kind words as Islam teaches me to do. I can’t stop the bad things that are said about my religion and I can’t stop the bad things muslims do in the name of Islam. (But I am encouraged to try, for sure) I thank God (Allah) for my beloved country America with its freedoms where I can worship God a little differently than my muslim brothers and not worry about being harrassed or injured because of it. Take care.
#15Cain also referred to Abel as brother.
#16The world has enough pessimists whitaker. hope i spelled that right.
#17I’m a realist.
#18that’s good., shall i quote bible verses for quincy adams that promote warfare? jihad? I could quote new or old testament showing that god commanded his believers to kill every living thing, man woman and child. Even Jesus (peace be upon him) had some very harsh words about how he wigh that he already destroyed the people around him. anywayz........
#19Chucky, you posted:
I can’t stop the bad things that are said about my religion and I can’t stop the bad things muslims do in the name of Islam. (But I am encouraged to try, for sure)
You say you can try, but I don’t see you trying. Instead of protesting loudly against the murders committed all over the world on an almost daily basis by your co-religionists who say they are acting in the name of Islam and on the instructions of the Koran, you immediately go into attacking the Judeo-Christian tradition. This is just like so many Islamists, who say they are trying to do something about “the bad things muslims do in the name of Islam,” but then don’t back it up with their actions.
I dare you to write a long post here telling Muslims that all the verses in the Koran that demand the killing of Christians and Jews are out of date, that following them is evil, and that any Muslim who blows up a bus, train station, restaurant, market place, or other public place, is not going to paradise.
#20You don’t see me trying?????????? You have no clue who i am or what i do?????????? o.k. i’ll read the rest of your post now
#21Muslims, verses in the quran often are referring to a specific time and/or event during our beloved Prophet’s(pbuh&hf;) lifetime. Obviously!! For example, a jew or christian tribe breaks a treaty made with the muslims and try to kill the prophet (pbuh&hf;), what do you expect the muslims to do? Any muslim that kills an innocent person is not guaranteed paradise! The quran tells us that if one innocent person is killed, it’s as if you have killed all of humanity! Furthermore, dear friend, do you think muslims are suppose to kill jews and christians? That’s not true and makes no sense. Besides muslim women, a muslim man can only also marry a jew or a christian woman!! Imagine, you think muslims are instructed to marry a jew or christian, and then instructed to kill them!!?? Nonsense!!
As for me mentioning judeo-christian verses, that’s to combat the relentless attack on Islam by the media. If you want to say oh islam says this, islam says that, why can’t i say oh yeah, judaism says this and islam says that. You have a typical attitude that the world revolves around you only.
#22I’m not sure of your reference to Jesus concerning destroying the people around him. Is that the true Jesus of the Bible, or the one in the Qu’ran?
Consider this; 1 Peter 2:23
#23Look at that - your supposed exhortation to Muslims to stop killing Christians and Jews in the name of Islam, includes a justification for such killing, and an incitement to such killing:
For example, a jew or christian tribe breaks a treaty made with the muslims and try to kill the prophet (pbuh&hf;), what do you expect the muslims to do?
I dared you to state that “any Muslim who blows up a bus, train station, restaurant, market place, or other public place, is not going to paradise,” and all you could say was that they were not “guaranteed” of going to paradise.
That is pathetic.
#24o.k., mr. darer. you say “any muslim who blows up a bus...is not going to paradise”. You didn’t say innocent people were killed.!!! So if its military on a bus....it’s o.k., but public place= not o.k.!!! So, when i said if a muslim kills an innocent person, it’s as if he killed all of humanity, that’s God’s way of saying (bad, no no, don’t do that, killing all of humanity is not good...........NOT GOING TO PARADISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) iS THAT better for you?
#25The interpretation you offer of that verse from the Koran, is a well-known fake-out. I posted about this just last month: ”Does the Koran Really Say that To Kill One Man is To Kill All Mankind?”.
You say “public place= not o.k.”, but that’s a half-sentence, a phrase, that leaves a wide range of interpretations of what you might mean.
I dared you to say that “any Muslim who blows up a bus, train station, restaurant, market place, or other public place, is not going to paradise,” and you refused to do it. Instead you want to talk about how it’s okay in Islam to kill people who Islam doesn’t consider “innocent.”
The Islamists who blow up buses, trains, planes, restaurants, etc. believe that anyone who isn’t a Muslim is not innocent.
Here you are, spending all your time on this forum arguing against me, instead of against your co-religionists who believe it is their duty to kill Christians and Jews.
As I said in #19, “This is just like so many Islamists, who say they are trying to do something about ‘the bad things muslims do in the name of Islam,’ but then don’t back it up with their actions.”
#26You say I’m on here wasting time with you and not talking to muslims. Then, why would you ask me to make a statement ON HERE to muslims!!!??? Wiggle your way around that one now. You tell me to make a statemnet to muslims on here, so i assume you know that muslims read this, so I am not wasting time, and i am talking to my fellow muslims
I say kill innocent equals hell, and all you do is try to twist it like an attorney. you rock
I will get the quran verse for you......and bible verses if i have time.
#27I want you to make a statement here to Muslims. So far, you’re not making it.
I say kill innocent equals hell
Sure. But the Muslims who blow up public places believe that Christians and Jews aren’t innocent. So you’re just supporting your co-religionists who blow up public places.
The Koran verse is already quoted in the post I linked in #25.
#28Well let me just do exactly what you say master.
more sarcasm........congratulations on finishing your 8 years of advanced Islamic studies in Qum, Iran! I doubt that you are knowledgable about explanation of Quran.
There are muslims who blow up innocent xtian/jews, probably. Yet, they think the victims are not innocent. yes. you are correct. Pretty well covered in the western media.
You said, “So you’re just supporting your co-religionists who blow up public places.” Wow that’s so intellectual of you! I guess your right. I better go hide in a cave somewhere and suppress women there.
#29To Chukee.
“in the koran the law says that mohammed is the best example of behavior for you. Marry 9yr olds (Aisha) Beat your wife (Quran 4:34) fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them(Quran9:5)… What an Example. The bible verses you talk about that have violence in them are Descriptive, The Korans are Prescriptive. Big difference!
#30Nice knowing you all. I see what u guys are interested in. Good luck in life. nef you will beg on the day of judgement that you could have been able to love prophet muhammad (pbuh&hf;) and benefit from him. unsubscribe me please.
#31Chuck, you started out by saying “I have always been taught through Islam that we refer to jews and christians as ‘brother’,” and you finished by saying that anyone who doesn’t love mohammed is going to be punished on the day of judgment. It appears that your initial statement did not fully convey your views.
#32Chuckeee.
WOW...I really need to get in this...Chuckeee, let me first suggest you chcuk your religion for one that is consistent since 30 ad. Jesus` main message was love.
Now lets talk about the false prophet. Mohammad was a pedophile. The Koran says it and Muslims do not deny it. Muslims say he only married the 9 year old for financial reasons. Lets say a man marries a 9 y/o today, I think he would be given life in prison...even if he didn’t have sex with her.
Your religion is bankrupt. Yes, Christianity has had its dark days, but lets not blame the religion as much as the catholic church. All the blood shed in the name of religion by Christians has been refuted as non-Christian. Islam, however, does not come out and categorically state that killing PERIOD is bad. You even say that killing military men are ok. I tell you this, the only reason Islam has spread in the Arab world is because Arabs could not accept a peaceful messiah. They wanted blood, as the bible states, an unruly and unlawful people.
I find it amazing that one year ago on September 14th the Pope mis-spoke and offended Islam and that ALL of Islam raised up in arms demanding an aplogy...though all over the world Muslims offend Jesus Christ and Christians and never once extend an apology.
In Islam, the term innocent is not placed on infidels, or non-believers. Therefor in Islam it is okay to kill non-believers.
Again, Islam is morally bankrupt.
#33Hey dimbo. You seem a little excited to see me.
#34Vik, for balance heres another Winston Churchill quote - “Terrorist Jews.
In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary”
#35Sean, there seems to be some question as to whether Churchill actually wrote this.
But, assuming he did, you left out a key part of the article you quoted:
We owe to the Jews in the Christian revelation a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all other wisdom and learning put together. On that system and by that faith there has been built out of the wreck of the Roman Empire the whole of our existing civilization.
So the author of this article found the contributions of the Jewish faith to be “incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all other wisdom and learning put together.”
Contrast this to Churchill’s views, quoted above, of Islam, that “No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”
#36Charles wrote: <quote>Salaam Walaykum. Peace be upon you. This is how muslims greet each other. This is how Jesus (peace be upon him) greeted his companions. I am a convert from Christianity to Islam. Like P. Tang said, I have always been taught through Islam that we refer to jews and christians as “brother”. In Islam we are taught that everyone else is your equal. Either our equal as muslims or our equal as in humanity. Well, just thought I’d say some kind words as Islam teaches me to do. I can’t stop the bad things that are said about my religion and I can’t stop the bad things muslims do in the name of Islam. (But I am encouraged to try, for sure) I thank God (Allah) for my beloved country America with its freedoms where I can worship God a little differently than my muslim brothers and not worry about being harrassed or injured because of it. Take care.</quote>
Charles, I don’t think anyone here would have a problem with someone who practiced his beliefs the way you appear to be doing. But you have got to be aware that 99% of the terrorism in the world today is driven by people who identify themselves as Muslims. And I believe the folks here are trying to determine the motives behind those loons.
#37Of course the fact that Adams only had access to a translation of the Qur’an that had been erroneously, and purposefully translated by who else, those loving and truth seeking Christians, too elicit just that kind of an opinion would not have anything to do with what Adams thought would it. No, of course not!
As for the Churchill quote, most likely the fundies are just lying about that. That’s what they normally do when something doesn’t fit in with their belief system or rendition of history.
#38Of course the fact that Adams only had access to a translation of the Qur’an that had been erroneously, and purposefully translated by who else, those loving and truth seeking Christians, too elicit just that kind of an opinion would not have anything to do with what Adams thought would it.
r. connors, please provide a link to back up this assertion.
#39’r. connors, please provide a link to back up this assertion.
I have a better idea. Why don’t you get up off your butt and go look it up. You might actually learn something about the world and how it works.
From Montesquieu, about 1748, “Spirit of the Laws”, Book XXIV, Chapter III:
That a moderate Government is most agreeable to the Christian Religion, and a despotic Government to the Mahometan.
THE Christian religion is a stranger to mere despotic power. The mildness so frequently recommended in the gospel, is incompatible with the despotic rage with which a prince punishes his subjects, and exercises himself in cruelty.
From Chapter IV:
It is a misfortune to human nature, when religion is given by a conqueror. The Mahometan religion, which speaks only by the sword, acts still upon men with that destructive spirit with which it was founded.