on  03/30/06  at  05:04 PM    #1

Ben Domenech's legacy of rightwing plagiarism lives on thanks to A.M. Whittaker. Well done!

  on  03/30/06  at  08:17 PM    #2

Dear Frank,

I wasn't sure what source this originally came from since I had been sent this via someone else - but I did check it against some reference books and my military history book listing battles throughout history.

Since I am more interested in getting things correct, could you elaborate on any discrepancies.

Are there any other issues you would also like to address?

A.M.

  on  03/30/06  at  09:23 PM    #3

Dear Frank,

I'm new to this and I didn't know about the site you referenced as well as who Ben Domenech was.

I contacted a local historian for a timeline of the Crusades and received a longer version of what I posted. Interestingly enough I live in the Virginia/Washington area.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

However, I did check these dates and events against the reference sources I had available and they did check out. I considered this a timeline table. Dates are dates and events are events no matter where you get them.

Again,are any of these dates or events incorrect or are you simply pointing out that this might have been plagerism?

Please advise.

AM

  on  03/30/06  at  10:23 PM    #4

Frank, while it is good blogging practice to provide links to document information sources, the absence of a link in a single comment, is a far cry from plagiarism. As Whittaker has noted:

I'm new to this and I didn't know about the site you referenced as well as who Ben Domenech was.

I contacted a local historian for a timeline of the Crusades and received a longer version of what I posted.

In any case, thanks for providing a link documenting this info.

  on  05/13/06  at  09:38 PM    #5

I guess if they can justify themselves with medieval history so can we. In fact, we probably need to know this stuff just to understand their messages.

Now, all we need is resolve, for them to respect us. I just hope it doesn't take another 800 years to stop their expansion.

  on  05/14/06  at  04:14 AM    #6

Great point, ast. The enemy is composed of minor states run by failed cultures. We have to stop Iran from getting the bomb, and after that, all we have to do is get a little tougher -- we have to control the border, require assimilation of immigrants, severely restrict immigration to free countries of radical Islamists, and keep up the military pressure on terrorists and those who fund and support them.

AST   on  05/18/06  at  07:41 PM    #7

One of the things I learned reading Bernard Lewis is that this struggle isn't new. The Islamic tide reached its height in the 1400s and they have lost consistently ever since. What's new is that oil has made them feel rich and powerful again and the old Jihad snake oil is being sold. When they started losing wars back 500 years ago, they thought all they needed was western weapons and military techniques and they'd recover. It hasn't worked out that way, but they think that if they just can get a nuclear weapon they could start winning again.

They don't really understand or believe the horror of such a battle, and they mistake our desire to avoid it as a form of weakness. In some ways, they're right. A lot of the West is whistling past the graveyard, hoping that they'll be satisfied with blowing up Tel Aviv, but these letters from Ahmedinejad signal something pretty scary, if the mullahs running the show really are behind him. He's basically laying the groundwork for launching a just Jihad according to Islamic Law. We are about to be taught another lesson about complacency as he sends a bunch of suicide bombers off to keep us busy while he builds his atom bombs.

  on  05/20/06  at  12:28 PM    #8

Great stuff as always, Ast. I'm going to quote this in a post.

Update: the post quoting you is here.

  on  05/22/06  at  07:13 AM    #9

Comment from Malta:Malta was liberated from the muslims in 1090 by the norman Roger

Regards

E.Muscat

Assistant Village Idiot   on  07/20/06  at  07:20 PM    #10

What we call The Crusades was Western Europe playing defense for over 90% of the 1000 years of Muslim expansion. Places like Romania, Bulgaria, and Hungary do not remember the Crusades as expansionist Christianity. They remember it as the only times they had any help. These countries absorbed the damage and protected Europe for centuries.

Also from Bernard Lewis: Islamic histories did not record the Crusades as such until recently. The invasions were often only part of tribal wars amongst themselves, and several factions actually allied with the Christians from time to time for reasons of their own. Only when Muslims began to study in the West in the 1800's did they "discover" the Crusades.

  on  09/14/06  at  10:12 PM    #11

Ok, some basic history here. Romania was in fact part of the old Greek empire of Byzantium, the Eastern Roman Empire. This was eventually taken over by the Turks, who were converted to Islam only late and could not in any way be described as Islamicist.

The list you give is completely one-sided and does not include any mention of the massacres of Jews in Spain by Crusaders, nor the sacking of Granada, the last Moslem Kingdom in Spain. I suggest that you try and obtain a more complete list, and please note also that the 'Persians' listed were in fact the Sassanid dynasty and were Zoroastrian, in fact losing their kingdom to the Moslems.

I think you need to go back and look at the basic liberties accorded to citizens by Islam as compared to the crude and barbaric European kingdoms of the day. Especially note how the First Crusade sacked Jerusalem and slaughtered everyone regardless of race or creed (contemporaries noted those who fled for sanctuary being slaughtered in the temple, and up to their ankles in blood), while when it was recaptured by 'Saladin' he restrained his army from pillage and plunder.

The Crusades were triggered by the Byzantine Emperor calling for assistance versus the Turks after the disaster of Manzikert where treachery by one half of the Byzantine army caused the loss of most of their Asian provinces (Themes). In the years that followed, various petty Christian Princedoms and fiefs variously allied with and against Byzantium, Armenia, Damascus and Egypt, both for and against fellow Christians.

Steven Runcimans 3 volume history of the Crusades is a very good overview. I suggest you read it.

regards

DM

Assistant Village Idiot   on  09/15/06  at  03:31 PM    #12

The Crusades were triggered by many things, not least among them the refusal to allow Western Christians to visit Jerusalem.

Petty Muslim Princedoms allied with Christians as well. Odd you should leave that out. As to the rights accorded people of other faiths: after slaughter, those who would accept dhimmitude were left alone. That is perhaps an advance over what has been the norm in the world, including Europe, but it is hardly exciting.

There is now a consensus that both sides exagerrated the slaughter at Jerusalem, each for their own purpose. I believe the number is now at 30,000 rather than 60,000, with the difference believed to have slipped away.

As to the Turks, yes I will grant that they might have been expansionist even if they had not been Muslim. Much of what we attribute to Islam is simply Islamic language covering the same old tribalism. Fair enough. Do you think my figures of Europe "playing defense" for over 900 years of the "Middle-eastern" expansion of 1000 years inaccurate?

  on  12/27/06  at  06:15 PM    #13

Great list but why Crusader kill more Jews than muslim. After all it was because of Jews people our beloved Jesus was put on cross.

  on  12/27/06  at  06:49 PM    #14

Congratulations, Shahid, you're officially a racist.

  on  12/27/06  at  07:25 PM    #15

I read over the petition. In signing, the Palestinian would be saying that he was of sound mind and body and was making the request for transfer free of pressure or duress. Of course, there was no way that they would leave without being pressured to do so. These families had been there hundreds of years, as farmers, primitive artisans, weavers. The Military Governor prohibited them from pursuing their livelihoods, just penned them up until they lost hope of resuming their normal lives. That's when they signed to leave.

Naeim Giladi

  on  12/27/06  at  07:29 PM    #16

So every thing malevolent that people say about muslim. They are not racist. Thank you for the title.

  on  12/27/06  at  08:42 PM    #17

Muslim is not an ethnicity. Arab is an ethnicity. A Muslim is one who follows the political ideology of Islam, which, judging by your statement on another thread on this site, includes wanting to destroy the state of Israel.

Shahid, you're skating on thin ice here. Your comment in #13 is intolerable. Quit while you're ahead or get off this site.

Assistant Village Idiot   on  12/27/06  at  09:52 PM    #18

shahid, I know that your comment in #15 is the common belief in the Muslim world of what happened to the Palestinians. I submit that it is not so. My simply contradicting you is unlikely to persuade you. I would suggest, therefore, that you start with the uncontested facts, such as what and who the population of Palestine was in 1900, 1920, 1940, and then 1948 and following. Then read the UN resolutions creating the State of Israel at the time, and the debate leading up to that.

These things, in and of themselves, without having to encounter a single Jewish or pro-Israeli source, should modify your views somewhat as to who the current Palestinians are, and why they were not taken in by Jordan, Syria, etc.

  on  12/27/06  at  10:31 PM    #19

vik I have never said Isreal has no right to exit. Isreal has every right to exit. And I as American would be first to fight on behave of Isreal.

  on  12/27/06  at  10:36 PM    #20

comment # 15 Naeim Giladi is leading American Orthdox Jew leaves in New York and this are his view. Not mine. Can some one email me Isreal's consituttion. Please.

  on  12/27/06  at  11:52 PM    #21

vik I have never said Isreal has no right to exit. Isreal has every right to exit. And I as American would be first to fight on behave of Isreal.

That sounds like the opposite of what you posted here:

So if United Nations decide to creat a mexican country within USA I am sure you would not mind because it would be legit. And ofcourse Mexican can buy land and creat Mexican country it will be legal too. Palestine do not have problem with Arab Jews they have problem with European Jews who live thier own country and come to Israel.

  on  12/28/06  at  06:16 AM    #22

Dear Shahid,

As per comment #13:

This notion that the Jews were to blame for the death of Jesus has been a common, but erroreous one. It has contributed to the slaughter, torture, and ostracism of millions of Jews throughout history. (And yes, it is a primary reason that so many Jews were murdered and persecuted by the Crusaders.)

Vatican II and Pope John Paul II have publicly apologized for this error. Two synods of the American Lutheran Church have publicly rejected the writings of Martin Luther concerning the Jews. Baptists everywhere are embracing their Jewish sisters and brothers and supporting Israel.

Agaim. Jesus was a Jew and preached within a Jewish context.

The Jews are still recognized as G-d's chosen people by both Jews and Christians.

  on  12/28/06  at  02:07 PM    #23

Vik your comment #21 Quote from my earlier writing does not contratic Please do not tell me you are from non english speaking country. What I was tring to explain is that we should not support Isreal blindly. Even Jew do not support their Gov blindly. So why we are being more loyal than king himself.

Comment # 22 some sensible writng. atlast. thanks whittak I could not have said it better.

Can someone email Isreal's consitution if not then ask your self Why?

  on  01/02/07  at  09:52 AM    #24

You live in Memphis, and visit the mosques there; perhaps you have met with Maher and Haitham Ghawji, or Rafat Jamal Ghawjii, or Enaam Arnaout? These would be prominent muslims from Memphis that you might know.

Or, maybe you are part of the muslim brotherhood. You did mention it. You appear on ejobs in Romanian or Bulgarian...perhaps you are Bosnian? I am working to uncover and expose your public domain background, and the more I discover about you, the more convinced I am that you are a danger to us. Your list of websites you frequent is as appalling as your stated HATRED OF JEWS.

I wanted to ask if you were one of the ones demonstrating at the University against Brigitte Gabriel? I see where you emailed the authorities protesting her free speech rights at the University of Memphis. In fact, I am amazed at what a variety of forums you enter...the sindh/punjab sites, the Iraqi sites, the American sites...who really are you, a self-styled jihaddi poster child?

  on  01/02/07  at  10:11 AM    #25

In response to #20, Shahid, you are a willing spokesperson for al-jazeera's complaint that only Jewish people can be citizens of Israel. http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=11320 - 36k -

HO HUM.................(and I emphasize HO)

Article 144

The Army of the Islamic Republic of Iran must be an Islamic Army, i.e., committed to Islamic ideology.

Article 23

The investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief.

Article 151

In accordance with the noble Qur'anic verse:

(Prepare against them whatever force you are able to muster, and horses ready for battle, striking fear into God's enemy and your enemy, and others beyond them unknown to you but known to God... [8:60]).

All Iranians are required to engage in the armed defence of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The possession of arms, however, requires the granting of permission by the competent authorities.

WELL, IF I AM A JEWISH IRANIAN, I MUST WEAR A YELLOW STAR ON MY OUTER CLOTHING, even though Article 23 says I cannot be taken to task for my beliefs...BUT, being Iranian, I MUST ALSO ENGAGE IN THE DEFENSE OF those who make me wear the yellow star, BUT I WILL NOT BE AFFORDED A WEAPON.

BUT NOT TO WORRY...

Article 22

The dignity, life, property, rights, residence, and occupation of the individual are inviolate, except in cases sanctioned by law.

My dignity is inviolate >EXCEPT< in cases sanctioned by law.

  on  01/02/07  at  10:26 AM    #26

O Shahid, maybe I was obtuse in my example...How about the Arab's version of a Constitution, in Syria?

The people (arabs only...no Kurds allowed) are the ultimate source of national sovereignty. (WHAT IS THAT??)

Power is divided into the executive, legislative, and judicial branches. The President of the Republic has executive as well as some legislative powers.

The President, proposed by the Ba�th (Arab Socialist Resurrection) Party and then nominated by the People's Assembly, is voted into office by national referendum to serve a seven-year term. He may delegate his powers, at his sole discretion, to his vice presidents.

The President is the Head of State, the chief executive, and the secretary of the ruling Ba�th Party. He appoints and dismisses the vice presidents, the prime minister, deputy prime ministers, other members of the Council of Ministers (the cabinet), and top civil servants and military officers. The Council of Ministers, headed by the prime minister, are all responsible to the president.

The President of the Republic is the commander in chief of the armed forces and can declare war. He promulgates the laws approved by the People's Assembly. He may veto these laws. He has the right to dissolve the People's Assembly, in which case a new Assembly must be elected within 90 days from the date of dissolution. He may not do so twice for the same reason.

The President cannot be removed from power except for high treason. Impeachment proceedings may be initiated through a petition signed by one-third of the members of the People's Assembly voting openly (the people the President appoints and dismisses!) or by a petition of two-thirds of the Assembly members voting at a special closed session. The President can be tried only by the Supreme Constitutional Court, of which he is a member.

SCHIZOPHRENIA, defined.

Lest we remain ignorant of how an Islamic Constitution reads, "Article 113 of the constitution grants the President broad emergency powers and those powers have been in effect in Syria since the 1963."

  on  01/02/07  at  10:59 AM    #27

"on-muslim minorities within an islamic state do not enjoy rights equal to those of the muslim majority....although most of the Constitutions of modern muslims states guarantee against religious discrimination, most of these Constitutions also provide for the application of Shar'iah. As such, these Constitutions sanction discrimination against religious minorities."

Abdullahi A. An-Na'im

Human Rights Quarterly,Vol. 9,No. 1(Feb.,1987),pp. 1-18

Muslims argue that they are entitled to mistreat religious adherents around them in ways that marginalize them, expose them to brutal dictatorships without right of redress, etc. Today we see the vociferous march of militants in Nazareth to intimidate the remaining Christians.

Screaming and yelling and brutality have gained ground for islam, though its ideas and customs are inferior and backward in every way. In Europe these same tactics are underway, to push and scare Christians out of their homes, forfeiting them to militants. So far, with Europeans, this

is working.

Let the militants come here, and try to push and scare us out of our homes, AND they WILL FIND the USA has armed itself, by the Second Amendment to our Constitution. Our big families of Winchesters,Glocks and Armalites, the Colts and the Barettas will be meeting them at our doors.

  on  01/02/07  at  11:50 AM    #28

The Israelis are working on a Constitution:

The Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee of the Knesset towards drafting a constitution for the State of Israel. The Committee seeks to create a constitution that represents all members of Israeli society.

  on  01/02/07  at  12:04 PM    #29

It is amazing how muslims keep all of us on the defensive, answering their insults and accusatory questions.

  on  01/02/07  at  12:04 PM    #30

The Crusades were from 1095 - 1291. The Muslim Conquets: 613-present

Perhaps you would be interested in learning about the Assassins who started their murderous campaign in 1090!

The modern-day Ismailis are descended from them.

  on  01/02/07  at  12:17 PM    #31

For some reason this didn't come out correctly on # 28

The Website for the Israeli constitution is:

http://www.cfisrael.org/home.html

Assistant Village Idiot   on  01/02/07  at  04:24 PM    #32

julie, it is similar to the diversionary tactics of the Soviets. To any question about the Gulags or liquidations, the reply would be that "you have black people who are political prisoners in the US, too." It is not so much intentional manipulation (though that was often the case) as it is an intense tribalism, an inability to perceive one's opponent's true intentions because what it would reveal would be damaging to one's own tribe.

The Arab world does not hate us (and Israel) because of our successes. They hate us because of their failures. To see that would mean leaving the tribe, and who knows where that might lead, eh?

  on  01/03/07  at  05:28 AM    #33

I viewed your blog yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I agree with your remarks about looking realistically at one's own failures...as the picture might cause one to leave his own secure tribal surroundings...

However, for me, personally, I find much meaning in the Book of Genesis, where Ishmael's (descendants are) characterized by the God of Abraham, as "his hand will be against his brother." muslims fight each other far more often in history than they group together and fight those outside of islam. My take on this description in Genesis is that they will hate us until the end of the world, no matter what we do to appease them.

Our overarching problem is that the maniacal tyrants are getting the bomb and that they are attempting to group together against civilization at this point in history. It matters not so much why they hate us, but that they are having partial success in unifying, and are close to getting WMD.

Khal Shariff   on  01/25/07  at  11:12 PM    #34

ONE WORLD ONE PEOPLE

stop your hate

- a Muslim Christian Jew.

take that and smoke it, losers, I've seen better arguments in grade six. Adults acting like children. Jews Blaming Muslims, Muslims blaming Jews.

You make me sick to my stomach.

  on  01/25/07  at  11:48 PM    #35

Khal, that's an odd comment. Why do you say, "Stop _your_ hate?" You know that the vast majority of people who blow up trains, planes, buses and restaurants, do it in the name of Islam. Why don't you protest against Muslims who blow up public places in the name of their religion?

  on  01/26/07  at  01:39 AM    #36

khal,

I've personally requested (on another thread) some answers to questions brought up by this blog to clarify Islamic doctrine.

All I've seen are Muslims who write in and complain about the tenor of this blog, but no one has really contributed anything positive or substantive.

No Muslim seems to want to directly address these issues.

No Muslim seems to want to share experiences or views within his/her community.

Perhaps if Muslims contributed content rather than condemnation of this blog, the tenor would change.

But instead there's accusation instead of illumination; declaration instead of dissemination of information.

How are we supposed to alter our perceptions?

How are we to handle these important issues which are affecting our country and world?

We need facts and honest answers in order to establish a fair exchange.

  on  01/26/07  at  06:06 AM    #37

The truth is, these muslims believe they are doing the will of allah (i.e., as in the satanic verses) to come on as many blogs as possible to lie to our faces.

It is no different than the dem-no-crats who hope if they yell a lie long enough and loud enough, we will all come to believe the lie.

WRONG.........

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  06:58 AM    #38

You both are completelty generalizing.

You can't say "all Muslims" are like this.

That is clearly prejudice.

"Who stoked up the Middle East?", is what you should be asking instead. The tone is rather immature and preachy here, honestly.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  07:07 AM    #39

You shouldn't assume I am a Muslim because of my name, either.

That is also prejudice.

While I am most probably of Muslim descent on one side of my family, I could also be Jewish, and hey, I am also Scottish.

Wow, so as someone with that unique a perspective, take it from me, when I offer an opinion, which quite frankly, is the only one that will save the world from it's own wars, after reading a litany of "sin" against Islamic civilization, I really have to say "stop."

The sooner you realize the motivation, the better everyone off will be. And it is not through some superiority complex that I say it.

Portrayals in the media that associate all current violence in the world as tied directly to Islam is ridiculous.

That only leads to the other side and splits civilation in twain.

For example most of Lebanon had become quite a happy place, and the recent bombing campaign of the whole country only gives credence to the opposers, who can claim faith as a reason, which masks survival and a quest for power. At some point you have to decide to stop.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  07:11 AM    #40

p.s. One last thing.

Advanced civilation relies on concepts of due process. It does not place the sins of the fathers on the sons. But I really shouldn't have to say that here, should I?

  on  01/26/07  at  07:42 AM    #41

There is a little touted principle in psychology which properly applies to the negative muslims....and in fact, to the dem-no-crats....its name is PROJECTION.

Now, here is the psychological definition of projection found in Wikipedia:

"Attributing one's own undesirable traits to other people or agencies."

I myself have never encountered one single muslim who LISTENED and answered during a discussion. The modus operandi of these negative folks, whether dem-no-crats, or muslims, is to project onto us their own prejudices, and hate, and then call us prejudicial haters....their goal is to keep us on the defensive, in the hope that we never get time to assert and prove our case. I think they prove our case well for us. Let that mirro shine right back on them what they are porjecting onto us...It is the only way they will ever reflect.

They recently used this method of projection onto the Pope as well. They projected onto the Holy Father all sorts of hate and prejudice, but the world saw that they were in denial of their own prejudice and hate. They did not listen to him, nor will they listen to us.

Although I do not agree with everything he says, Bob Wallace puts it well:

"Psychopaths blame other people as the cause of their problems. Sometimes, because of their hate, rage and envy, they remove dozens of people from the Earth; these are the serial killers. These killers invariably hone their murderous fantasies in their imaginations before trying them in reality.

The hate they wish to embroil us in comprises their intolerable feelings of fear [so they want to terrorize us], helplessness [they want us to feel helpless before them], and inferiority against "wrongs" received at the hands of a perceived superior.....[such groups as CAIR spend their days in and days out hoping beyond hope to prove muslims are the "real" victims at all times in all places]; they [the serial killers] have feelings of helplessness and inferiority against a perceived superior [the USA] having something they envy and ache for [the Truth of the Judeo-Christian freedom]. [They] both hate and envy, wishing the destruction of the alleged superior [Israel and the USA].

Psychopathic serial killers [terrorists] don't have much else than a grandiose self and a devalued self. They project their hate and rage onto others; when the feelings are unbearable they kill, then they feel all-powerful and grandiose. [They call this "martydom.]

Then the cycle repeats itself. There is no love, no conscience, no remorse, no guilt. Psychologists believe they [the srrial killers] are stuck at less than three years...old. [This mind-set is inculcated very young.]

Although the Nazis are thought by many to be the worst modern scapegoaters, the Marxists topped them. The Nazis split humanity into the grandiose, perfect Aryans and the evil non-Aryans, then scapegoated these "non-human" "looters" and "parasites".

The Marxists neatly split people into the evil capitalist exploiters and the noble exploited workers -- and from this springs the worst mass murder ever."

http://home.att.net/~bob.wallace/rand2.html

_______________________

The muslims top them both. Their koran divides the entire world into the umma, the house of islam, and the kaffir, the house of war.

If muslims had their way, and if God were not true to His Promises to His chosen people, the Jews, and if God were not The Faithful Being, they would surely outstrip the Marxists of their current title as the worst mass murderers.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  07:44 AM    #42

directly addressing my email this morning...

Khal, that�s an odd comment. Why do you say, �Stop _your_ hate?� You know that the vast majority of people who blow up trains, planes, buses and restaurants, do it in the name of Islam. Why don�t you protest against Muslims who blow up public places in the name of their religion?

was a reply to:

ONE WORLD ONE PEOPLE

stop your hate

- a Muslim Christian Jew.

take that and smoke it, losers, I�ve seen better arguments in grade six. Adults acting like children. Jews Blaming Muslims, Muslims blaming Jews.

You make me sick to my stomach.

Can't you see that stop your hate clearly applies to everyone? We have to be out there, saying stop the hate, stop the hate. As much as it seems that people are different, we really are not. Don't give in to the propoganda fires. I would assume (I hope rightly), that people on this board know a thing or two. We need a huge peace movement in the world and to start fresh. That's what all children deserve and have a right to.

julie   on  01/26/07  at  08:05 AM    #43

President Herbert Hoover ordered the deportation of all illegal aliens; in 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower deported 1.3 million Mexican nationals. It took 2 years, but we deported them. If we could deport the illegals back then, they can sure do it today!!

We need to deport all muslim immigrants, whether they have been naturalized yet or not, based upon whether or not they will take a loyalty oath to the USA, and act accordingly. We have laws on the books about treason, and it is time to dust off those books.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  08:15 AM    #44

Julie:

Can you name a muslim immigrant American who's done anything?

are you going to look_it_up ?

julie remember the apology to the japanese?

remember why prejudice is wrong?

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  09:21 AM    #45

"On the other hand, it is kinda of nice to see pure hatred

Good luck with your plan "(said sarcastically).

sheeesh.

  on  01/26/07  at  09:34 AM    #46

Khal...please take your "Stop hate, peace peace" campaign to the muslim countries. That is the place to promote that. OH, EXCUSE ME, I forgot, they do not allow freeedom of thought and freedom of expression..

You cannot speak your mind there, which is why so many muslims are running away from the Middle East, trying to come to the West..islam does not produce creativity, innovation, freedom, or the betterment of mankind. It seeks the repression of free thought, and all that is creative. Everything must serve jihad, or islam, or it has no value. This is a dead-end ideology which can never benefit mankind.

You might want to begin your peace stop hate campaign with some of the Lebanese hezbos, or the Palestiinians, or the poor little disenfranchised muslims in france who are burning cars every night because they are "victims", or you might want to start with those arab superior-race advocates who have a zillion websites dedicated to killing the infidel. Let me see how far you get preaching to them about stopping their hatred, and living peacefully with us. You will be killed, just as Choudry in Bangladesh is facing. Try telling the muslims to live in peace with Israel, and to stop hating them. You will be dragged behind a car and tortured in front of all the other Palestinians as an object lesson. No one can ever suggest stopping their hate campaigns, and living in peace with the Jews. He will not live to see another day.

No one can point to any place in the BIble where it says muslims should all be killed, or "kill them wherever you find them," as the koran says about the infidels. Please show me JUST one quote in the Bible that does say we can kill someone who does not convert, and I will show you hundreds in the korn (spelling intentional) and hadith (had-it) that do. So, be a good boy now, and be quiet about your "stop hate" campaign with us.

Start with some justice and truth, and maybe you will get somewhere. Trying to change our definitions of justice and truth, and to re-work our thoughts into guilty, self-depracation, and self-loathing will fail. WE love freedom; your task in overthrowing us is going to be much harder than you presently are told, and overthrowing us will require the death of every single muslim before you could ever achieve it.

God will not allow a falsehood to dominate His World, nor to replace or remove His Word, the Holy Bible from the earth. You will always have to deal with the Truth, and no matter how much you hate it or try to deprecate it, God Is watching, and He will not allow the muslims to bring the elimination of what all of the Prophets and Jesus foretold...His Kingdom of Love beginning with the Jews, and radiating out from there, to the Gentiles on earth.

Muhammad has no such vision of a world where God dwells within His people. Oh, yes, they re-define HIs people to mean the muslims. But saying so does not make it so. One cannot steal the crown of Miss America and wear it for himself. The world will see he is a thief.

The allah of the arabs is a transcendant being, with whom no person can ever communicate...if we could communicate with allah, he would have chosen to communicate with the greatest most perfect and honorable muhammad, right? The great example for all mankind to emulate. HMMPH.

No, allah is not able to communicate with us, since he is not God. he is a fallen angel, who subverted muhammad's mind, so much so, it caused him to believe he was hearing from the devil himself. And the so-called "paradise" offered to muslims is one where utter and blatant immorality is divinely sanctioned. If you hate immoraltiy here, why would you love it there?

Because muhammad rejected Christ, he lost any ability to think clearly, and he lost the control over his own base lusts, from which Christ could have freed him. Muhammad missed God, and chose the lie instead, just as did Adam and Eve, and all of us since. All of us have missed God, and that is why God provided the remedy for our sins, by giving His Own Son in a substitutionary act of Justice: His death paid our fine, and His Resurrection opened the communication with The Father to any sinner that repents, and accepts what Jesus has done for him...

Muhammad, choosing to try it without Jesus, on his own, could not control his lascivious desires, and he took child "brides." He could not control even the most basic of his desires, pride. His lust for power was fanatical by all standards; islam is a mere cult centered on muhammad, and I will forever say it like it is.

Look to Jesus, the gentle, humble, and loving Image of God on earth. When you see Him, you see that God Is loving, gentle, good, and very humble..and that God very much desires to communicate with fallen man. But God allows man to make mistakes...in the respect for our own free will.

  on  01/26/07  at  09:35 AM    #47

God is there, as our Father, to rescue us, but only if we ask Him...if we deny His magnificent Gift to us in Jesus Christ, we shut out all that is good; evil comes in like a roaring lion to subvert us and enslave us to our earthly lusts, as happened with muhammad. All who follow him have the same problem: answering for their sins when they die. They have not chosen God's salvation, but their own form of godliness, which is without power to change and purify them.

Christians do not worship three gods, as the koran claims, made up of Mary, Jesus and God. We tell you this, but you insist you know better than we do what we believe.

I have tried to tell many a muslim I do not believe in three gods, but ONE, but have never found one who would listen long enough to ingest it. It causes them to panic about the koran's veracity. Muslims do not listen because as soon as they listen, they have to question islam. Islam is bankrupt, has no answers, and cannot stand up in any debate on its own. It has to morph into whatever it thinks the hearer wants to hear.

I know the koran is false because it is about hatred, the very thing you say you want to stop. You want islam to morph into social justice, peace, and all our other concepts, but we are not convinced sharia is justice OR peace.

Go to where the hate originates... and tell me what you plan to do about that..specifically, the salafis and wahhabis and shiites who are after our blood.

Do not blame it on our being in the Middle East. There are far more muslims perpetrating this war and assault on the West HERE than there are Westerners in the Middle East. I do not see Westerners trying to change YOUR culture, or YOUR "religion." But I see a multitude, hundreds of thousands of little tentacles and organizations in the West, raising money for this or that, rubbing shoulders with our FBI, signing up for our police forces and military, arranging speeches in our churches, but disallowing us to speak in your mosques. There is no peace or reciprocation here.

Go to the source of the hatred, please. It will take your lifetime to change one of them.

You were educated in Manitoba Winnipeg. You are a product of the peacenik colleges up there. You simply have placed those peace efforts on the wrong people. You need to start by calming the muslim fanatics and getting them to give up their guns, bombs, nukes, and bio-weapons they so love.

I do not feel guilty about freedom. I do not feel fear, because I know Who God Is, and that He Is not allah. I do not deprecate America, nor do I loathe it. IN fact, I love America. We give more money per capita to others than any other country in the world. Saudi Arabia does not even help other muslims in desperate need, in trauma, in earthquakes, etc. We do, and for this, and many other reasons, I love America. This is the only country in the world where everyone would come if they had a chance.

The muslims all underestimate us...they fail to see we will never allow them the fruition of their dreams on the West. Though it may appear islam is winning, and though muslims believe they may be tasting the first taste of victory, let them try to swallow; it will prove a fatal choice for islam. Why? Because God Is watching.

More muslims are converting to Christianity every than are being born into islam. And they are already old enough to speak and convert others...the tides are pulling out on islam, and leaving it bare upon the shores to die in the sun.

Saudi Arabia has put a mosque on every corner whether there are muslims in the neighborhood or not. WE DO NOT WANT THAT, and believe me, one day they will be demolished. Mosques are considered legitimate storage places for weapons,wiht the fatwa of any imam, and certainly

according to everything our common sense tells us.

  on  01/26/07  at  09:36 AM    #48

We do not want our language or our definitions changed, our words misused, your religion forced upon us, nor do we want sharia, jezira, takkum, or haram pushed on us. We do not want to speak arabic, nor do we want to bend over backwards to understand you. It is the responsibility of the IMMIGRANT to melt into the greater pool of values, not the other way around. We are a melting pot...some of the stuff you bring should be melted off, and others that you bring should enrich us. But you come and want everything already in the pot to be thrown out, and your additions to be the only existing formula in the pot. BYE BYE. no thank you.

You have a brain, use it to expose what is so hateful in the pages of the koran and hadith. Surely, this is not too difficult. I can see it when I open any page of the koran. But then again, I have a translation that pre-dates September 11, 2001.

Try getting the muslims to be peaceful, and maybe some of us will then believe you really want the hate to stop. Go to the source of war, the war manual, the koran, and work to change that.

AND THAT IS WHAT THIS BLOG IS ABOUT. Culturally adapting and adopting the ways of the country into which you wish to reside. If not, please do us a favor now and leave while we are still offering you that option. Do something really noble with your life: begin with your own people to make changes, then you can easily come to us.

  on  01/26/07  at  09:41 AM    #49

We apologized to the Japanese after we WON THE WAR against that nation, rebuilt it, it became our ally, and we had many mutual bases of trust between us.

Once we win the ideological and phsyical wars with islam, we can apologize to any muslims who may still be offended. However, I suspect all of them will thank us for liberating them, because every muslim I have seen that studies the Bible has wound up born again, saved by God's own plan of salvation.

The problem is that MOST muslims all too willingly, close their minds, thinking that is faith. Those who do not wish to be enlightened and becoem patriotic, and loyal to this country, should leave. I make no apologies for this, as it is a matter of national security.

  on  01/26/07  at  09:51 AM    #50

Khal, I have invested enough time with you. I can see that you do not read my posts. So I shall use my time to continue my work exposing islam elsewhere.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  10:01 AM    #51

I sure did read your posts, and my opinion is the same.

BTW **boing*** I'm Christian, and I am shocked so many Christians are promoting hate.

The message isn't hard. Turn the other cheek Julie.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  10:13 AM    #52

Okay, let up the happiness quotient just a tad.

I have met one Muslim cab driver who got peeved when he heard my name that I was actually a Christian.

But I met many many more Muslims - that are pretty happy and make me a Christmas dinner.

That's one.

When you tell Muslims "no. do not hate jews" you'd be surprised at the thoughtfulness.

And man, there is a lot of hate going on between everyone. That message is peace, and it shows you that there is a role for everyone to play.

You see? See how the nice dialogue works well?

We need to kind of concentrate on the world and justice and not all this religious bickering. That's my point. It really does change the world, and thankfully for most of the world, this actually is the case.

And as you go around propping the Crusades as a good thing, well you're goading (not you Julie).

Don't forget to leave out the beginning of the 20th century to wonder why Theocractic Kingdoms in the middle east exist to begin with.

Of course you know all this, right A.M. ?

Propoganda, stoking, contempt - you want to blame people alive today for history, well it doesn't wash.

  on  01/26/07  at  10:37 AM    #53

If you claim you are a convert to Christianity, I will say this. Christians themselves do not identify with those in the world. We do not suggest that everyone living in the USA is Christian. The fact that you do, shows an islamic mind, not a Christian mind. A real born again Christian knows there are few who walk the narrow path of Christ. Only muslims talk as you do.

If you are not a convert, but was born a Middle Eastern Christian, you would also have a different attitude than you show in your posts. WE are not here to teach you jihhadis how to imitate and pretend to be Christians or Jews.

If you are a muslim who believes in saying he is Christian for the sake of making your point, and exercising your little online jihads, you are not only a hypocrite, but a blasphemer and a liar. I can understand why you have no interest in telling your muslim brethren to stop their hatred of the Jews.

Your words, methods and attitudes remain decidedly muslim...you blame us, change the meaning of our words, and expect us to say, "Oh, yes, dear moral tutor, you are morally superior, and we should follow your dictates, and march to your lock step." Go find yourself a willing flock.

You do not convince me for one minute that you are a Christian. That is a ploy I have seen before: you go one Jewish sites and write as though you were a Jew, come here and pretend to be a Christian. No one can imitate a Chrsitian...he either IS or he is not. This is one reason it is so impossible for dem-no-crats to fake their religion, and convince true Christians they love the Lord.

It is your target audience, and your recurring complaints that betray your loyalties. I do not care what words you use or what identity you claim...your objective is the same: to get the Christians to feel guilty, to act with mushy "love" toward you which is NO LOVE AT ALL. Real love brings the truth to you, which is what I am doing.

You want us to compromise, give up the fight and become complacent. One of your mantras is to accuse us of hate. Well, we do hate what is evil. I will never compromise, nor wil I give up the fight, and become complacent and I will hate evil as long as there is breath in me. I hate what God hates.

Jesus was no pacifist and neither am I.He did not want Peter cutting off the ear of a fellow Jew, but Jesus DID tell the disciples to be sure to take the sword with them as they went out. Your greatest enemy is the sword of truth.

Your nicey nicey concepts of how a Christian should be are definitely written in some muslims' jihad manual. You think you injure us when you hit us over the head with our own standards. Unless you yourself live up to those standards, you haev lots of work left to do on yourself before you come around berating us, your supposed Christian brethren, while you stick the sword in our backs.

Suffice it to say, you are just like the Emperor with no clothes.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  10:42 AM    #54

Okay - so I will really sign out now.

I am proud to be called a Peacenik -lol.

Peace and Love to all.

I promise I will bring it up more often with my Saudi exchange students.

*boooing*

Love,

Khal.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  10:43 AM    #55

Hold on baby, I aint no convert with an Islamic mind,

I was born Christian of a Scottish mom, and raised by Jesuits.

LOL

gees - should I read the rest of your post?

Come on accept the love,

later (for real) later later later.

-Khal "Yosef" Shariff

  on  01/26/07  at  10:51 AM    #56

This is my last, my very last post to you.

Look at your own litle realm of experince. A muslim cab driver gets peeved at your so-called Christian name. You do not know real Chrsitianity suffers on the cross still, in Darfur, where Christians are being routinely crucified.

BTW, Khal Shariff is not a Christian name.

And some muslims made you Christmas dinner! oboy. You take your complaints from the national level against the USA, and your little gamey website blames America for the suffering in Iraq, but you are so rightteously iporessed when someone makes you a meal. I bet they won't eat from a dish in your house. You are so pitifully blind.

There is absolutely no point in continuing with you, as yo show no trace of Christian thought in you. You leanred a few things to be able to shove our faces in them. That is a typical muslim exercise and response. May you have ma salami (salami is pork.)

This is my last, my very last post to you.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  11:06 AM    #57

Hmm. Perhaps I will send this thread to the brothers at St. Paul's High School (graduate); You could find out if you investigated me further...

Obviously 20 years of listening to the Gospel kind of _does_ qualify me to speak as a Christian, but I will not admonish you. Sometimes these things take time.

I rather like my name and do not want to change it as I think that would be a cop-out. If I ever went into politics and spoke of the things we've discussed, I find (better or worse) that I get listened to more by the Mulim homeboys.

Lighten the load Julie. I am not your enemy, don't go looking for them.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  11:19 AM    #58

Khal Yosef Shariff

Peacenik

Christian (confirmed, and likes it)

Bleeding Heart Liberal

Could be Jewish or a descendant oof Fatimah or both - not sure

my Palestinian (possibly Jewish descended) grand-dad died before my dad could ask him.

Is definately half Scottish.

Khal doesn't post his CV online, but is working in "games" yes.

Khal does blame Bush for the big WMD lie, and read too much about it to pretend he doesn't.

Khal loves America.

Khal loves Canada.

Khal eeks out hate from his heart, and does enjoy reminding his fellow Jewish citizens when they make a funny argument.

Khal hardly ever finds Islamic sites on the blog searches or would do the same there - but be scared to - honestly.

Khal is Canadian and likes to dance.

Khal's done a lot of things professionally - and won't haul that out at all.

That's it - blogs are for discussion - don't wig out on me there, Julie.

REALLY - GOOD NITE AND GOOD LUCK - that it

love,

Khaled

  on  01/26/07  at  11:21 AM    #59

Islam denies the Father and the Son:

�The Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them"

(Sura 9:29-30).

These are your Muslim friends? You seem proud to say you were raised by Jesuits, but do you know the oath Jesuits take as novices?

Here is an excerpt from http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/the-jesuit-order

My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among the Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence to seek even to preach from their pulpits and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and to descend so low as to become a Jew among the Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope.

You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces and states that were at peace, and incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly in concert with your brother Jesuit, who may be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected; only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  11:57 AM    #60

O dear, onto the Jesuits now?

Better check your sources. Seriously.

You people better stop fighting, I tells ya.

Please note the discrepencies point out by others in the outline of the Crusades, that's all it's about.

I assure you, I am not out sowing insurrection.

What is this place - anyway?

*off to work as a computer geek*

bye y'all

  on  01/26/07  at  12:03 PM    #61

the source you tell me to check is the Library of Congress; You say the Jesuits raised you. Were you an orphan?

I simply pointed out how you inherited much of their character.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  12:11 PM    #62

which part - the secret part?

the jealously and hatred (the opposite I think is true?)

like - it's an attack, but not supported by anything I said - you all should love each other - that's it.

phht.

Bye (turns cheek, walks to work)

  on  01/26/07  at  01:13 PM    #63

Luke,

So you're saying that Jesuits are the jihadists of the Roman Catholic Church?

I've known and studied with Jesuits and have had no indication of this - and I am an Episcopalian.

Should I assume that this 'oath' is in Latin and translated to the text you cited?

Hey, are there any Jesuits reading this that can comment?

  on  01/26/07  at  01:26 PM    #64

You decide whether or not the Jesuits comprise jihaadists for the Catholic Church. I was merely pointing out that some of their attitudes seem to have "rubbed off" on Khal.

The reference gives the listing at the Library of Congress:

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/the-jesuit-order

  on  01/26/07  at  01:46 PM    #65

To Khal.

As I am the contributor who originally posted the Reasons for the Crusades , I should explain that it was done in response to all the finger-pointing at Christians by my Muslim neighbors for the Crusades, without any mention of the preceding Muslim Conquests; this is not opinion, this is historic fact. And I don't necessarily support all that happened during the Crusades or the subsequent Inquisition in Spain (my Jewish family were victimized as a result of the Inquisition.). However, there is no doubt in my mind that the Crusades did stop the Muslim Conquest from spreading further (and, indeed, withdrawing) thus permitting the Western world and its ideas of individual freedom and democracy to grow and prosper for the past 800 years. The United States and Canada certainly would not exist today, if the tide had not turned.

I am convinced that there is a new movement to resurrect the Muslim Conquest started and conducted by Mohammad himself (from 613 until his death) and complete the mission of total world submission to Islam and Sharia Law.

You also stated the following: Khal hardly ever finds Islamic sites on the blog searches or would do the same there - but be scared to - honestly.

Why is that?

I want a peaceful world populated by people who love one another, too. Can such a world exist through terrorism and run by tyrants?

Peace needs to be defended.

Pax vobiscum

  on  01/26/07  at  01:58 PM    #66

Luke,

If this oath is indeed valid, then it is tantamount to jihad as we are given to understand jihad as pro-active struggle.

Q: Did you take an oath?

A: I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, sex or condition. To be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my superiors in all things without hesitation or murmuring.

Q: Will you do that?

A: I will.

Q: How do you travel?

A: In the bark of Peter the fisherman.

Q: Whither do you travel?

A: To the four quarters of the globe.

Q: For what purpose?

A: To obey the orders of my General and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfill the conditions of my oath.

Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Viceregent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated.

Obviously, I need to do more research on this to see if it is true. The Jesuits I know are an easy-going, liberal bunch of free-thinking theologians, so it's hard to imagine they would take or adhere to this oath.

But I'm a take-no-prisoners kind of person, totally equal opportunity, so if I take Islam to task for their beliefs, then I certainly can take the Jesuits, or any other religious order or sect, to task as well.

  on  01/26/07  at  04:41 PM    #67

Khal,

I was re-reading all of this and I came upon:

For example most of Lebanon had become quite a happy place, and the recent bombing campaign of the whole country only gives credence to the opposers, who can claim faith as a reason, which masks survival and a quest for power. At some point you have to decide to stop.

In what hole have you've been hiding your head? Does the Globe and Mail or CBC not report current events?

Beirut, Lebanon used to be called, the Paris of the Middle East. At this time, Lebanon's government, by their constitution, was dominated by Christians.

Then from 1975-1990 there was a civil war. The PLO eventually took over. The Israelis then drove out the PLO and withdrew in 2000, only to be replaced by Syrian occupation which allowed Hezbollah to thrive in Southern Lebanon. The Syrians were thrown out in 2005 and then Hezbollah terrorized non-Muslims and moderate Muslims and targeted Israeli citizens, culminating in the kidnap of Israeli soldiers. The Israelis attacked.

Lebanon has not really enjoyed true peace for nearly 50 years.

Any lull in the past has been an uneasy one due to both internal and external strife. It has been a false peace.

And it isn't entirely for reasons of faith on the Israeli side; it is for national security by protecting the their borders and citizens. Iy is for survival.

It's difficult to live in a neighborhood when the neighbors refuse to acknowledge your right to exist and try to take over your legally acquired property by force.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  05:16 PM    #68

All that stuff in recent Lebanese History = yes very bad.

I think the recent campaign was a mistake.

Whose reason are correct?

Israel and America?

Bob Woodward's?

Hezbullah's

  on  01/26/07  at  07:47 PM    #69

Khal,

Lebanon is a tragedy. The Lebanese had been a peaceful, productive country. People of all backgrounds were able to live together,

The Lebanese just want to be able to have the freedom and right of self-determination. This has been denied to them and currently Hezbollah has a stranglehold of at least the southern part. Hezbollah needs to be removed for this country to progress and regain its infrastructure and pride.I think most in the world recognize this.

How is this to be done?

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  08:28 PM    #70

Unfortunately, you can't "remove" people.

It's kind of like trying to remove South Americans from Paraguay.

You can't succeed. You just need to let them do their thing.

If you're in Bolivia and you start bombing Paraguay, well there would never be any forgiveness for that, would there?

It's human nature. Unfortunately, you have to get Hezbollah to the table and you need a peace treaty, that's all you can do. I'm not being naive, but looking at past mistakes.

  on  01/26/07  at  10:50 PM    #71

Khal,

Historically speaking, it's not true that you can't remove an enemy. Warfare does permit one side to win. The history of the world is full of examples of this.

Also, you make an assumption in your argument which does not appear to be correct. You assume that Hezbollah is willing to get to the table and make a peace treaty. Hezbollah does not wish to make a peace treaty. Hezbollah has the goal of destroying Israel and the U.S. (See this link for more info.) There is no peace that is of interest to it.

I really don�t have any answers. I just think people should be peaceful.

That may sum up your position, and I'm sure no one would disagree with you, but it does not address this question:

What do you do with an enemy that can't be negotiated with, wants to kill you, and has declared war on you?

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  11:21 PM    #72

That's a moral quandry.

I know what they think, and it's been a sliding slope for 40 years.

Thing is, with enough arm twisting, getting them to sit at the table is possible.

"remaking the landscape" with more bombs and mines is pretty dumb.

We did get Nato in there, we did manage to get a cease-fire.

The Palestinian situation doesn't help (but that isn't saying anything new).

Cease-fire and fences don't work forever - but at least with a cease-fire people can go to school. And let's save the conversation about the kind of schools. Someone's got to take the high road - and if that means frustration, that's what it takes - if that means living in fear of your neighbours - well I don't see how short of nuclear armageddon that will ever change - I really don't. One has to hope that secularism will take over as people thrive. You have to wonder why, with all the young intelligent people in Iran, that the government seems to grow ever stronger in its rhetoric, but in the end - if we don't believe people will change, we won't.

Khal Shariff   on  01/26/07  at  11:25 PM    #73

nato = UN above, thanks.

  on  01/26/07  at  11:44 PM    #74

Hezbollah is a recent development and not particularly Lebanese.

Relatively speaking, they are just a handful of terrorists in the same vein as the Nazi's were in Germany.

The world could not appease the Nazi's although otherwise intelligent, reasonable, and peace-loving people tried to. The Nazis talked peace, but were duplicitous

They need to leave or be eliminated for the safety and security of not just the Lebanese, or Israelis, but the entire region. They should not be allowed to become too entrenched.

  on  01/27/07  at  10:48 AM    #75

Thing is, with enough arm twisting, getting them to sit at the table is possible.

What kind of "arm twisting" do you have in mind?

�remaking the landscape� with more bombs and mines is pretty dumb.

Bombing Hezbollah's rocket launchers, was a very reasonable way to work on stopping Hezbollah from firing those rockets. Why do you say bombing them was dumb?

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  12:29 PM    #76

Why don't you watch this instead.

You TUBE Jew-Pale ONE VOICE

(the bombing that was dumb was the whole nasty Lebanon bombing)

Let people who want to end the conflict solve it.

That's it - I won't be trapped into a corner where I am asked under what circumstances can you fight?

ITS THE WRONG QUESTION

PEACE OUT

KHAL

  on  01/27/07  at  01:46 PM    #77

It's the wrong question because you don't have an answer for it. Your premise that "arm twisting" will make Hezbollah want to kiss and make up is incorrect. There is no "arm twisting," short of war, that will bring Hezbollah to the peace table.

Thanks for the link to that video. It's worth seeing. It shows a lot of people - Arab and Israeli - asking, "What am I willing to do to end the conflict?"

The thing is, the Israelis have already done everything to end the conflict. They've given away land in Lebanon, which was then used by Hezbollah to attack them. They've given away land in Gaza, which was then used by the Palestinians to attack them.

The fact is, if Hezbollah and the Palestinians stopped attacking Israel, there would be no conflict.

Let me ask you this: do you agree that Hezbollah and all Palestinians, including Hamas, must recognize the right of Israel to exist?

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  02:21 PM    #78

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. Let's break down your question (yes I think this fast).

Do you agree that Hezbollah and all Palestinians, including Hamas, must recognize the right of Israel to exist?

Does Khal Shariff agree to the following postulate:

Said parties A and B

A. 2007 Hezbollah Militant Socialist Charity and Islamic Syrian-funded conservative radical organization

B. Palestinians including Hamas (elected government officials known to exist in opposition to state of Israel), defined as losely based collective some of whom are displaced and living in camps, some of whom are organized miltarily, others of whom are impoverished stradling both sides of the current state known AS Israel.

must agree to the existence in current incarnation of state currently known as Israel (C):

C. Israel Current state currently defined within borders established post 1967 - democratic middle eastern nation defined by charter post WWII whose population are primarily of Jewish origin, self-described.

Does Khal Shariff agree that A and B should Support C as defined above.

I'm not a lawyer, not would I postulate a solution until a thorough investigation of all parties concerned was conducted.

That's the downfall right now, no one there can agree to any of this. It's a lack of leadership and modern intelligence that is causing the problems, not any one group.

So, guess what, I don't have an answer for that, but will continue supporting One Voice movements, as that all that will solve this business.

Incidentally, I know you explained your motivation in supporting the Crusades (by editing the full history), but it's an extreme point of view, and isn't helping.

  on  01/27/07  at  03:27 PM    #79

That sounds like a "no" to me. It sounds like you don't support the right of Israel to exist.

That�s the downfall right now, no one there can agree to any of this. It�s a lack of leadership and modern intelligence that is causing the problems, not any one group.

That's nonsense. The Israelis agree that Israel has the right to exist, and have shown that they want peace with the Palestians, by giving them land. The Palestinians have shown that they don't want peace, by accepting the land, and using it launch more attacks at Israel.

Again, your premise, that "no one there can agree to any of this," is incorrect.

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  03:45 PM    #80

Don't put words in my mouth, and don't draw me into the war.

I have stated my opinion very concisely.

Asking people to take sides before they understand the question is contrived, and dangerous.

Do I support 1967 borders? How the ^^^^

should I know, it is unimportant what I think as I have not studied the problem long enough.

That's really what people are trying to get to the bottom of - the borders - borders are a construct supported by law.

Israel seems nice - Do I support the right of Israel to not be wiped from the earth? No. Did you think my answer to that was "yes" - if so , you are severely handicapped in your world view and judgement of people, as was Julie above, but she will come around, and so will Luke.

It is a SIN to be passing around false histories and judging all Islam as it is a SIN to do so to Jewish people, and hell, let's be inclusive for a change and apply that to all peoples.

You have asked me to take a side - I am not going to, so don't goad me into doing so.

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  03:49 PM    #81

Do I think Israel should be wiped from the earth? No I do not.

In case there was confusion.

oye god my head hurts - please have a nice day and keep up the

nice debates.

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  04:00 PM    #82

p.s. Some Palestinians want peace.

It's pretty clear when they say it in that video quite clearly.

Do you think that's true honestly, I want to know - do you think they all want war? Or to cut hairs, do you think they all want 1967 borders, and is that the same thing to you as war?

p.p.s. world peace yo - join up

later,

Khal.

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  04:09 PM    #83

Okay, I going to leave you with one more sticky note: don't you feel the slight bit embarassed to be justifying the Crusades which were very often an indiscrimate killer (as are all wars). I mean it seems like a rather larger compromise to the integrity of your position to suggest they were somehow only a response to other factors - since for a lot of participants it was the most fun looting and killing they ever had of Jews, Muslims and everyone else?

I mean really... :/ you can't just point to history and say: "see they've always been bad, they're bad now" and expect any good to come of it.

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  04:33 PM    #84

before you ask the name of that one is:

"Bearing false witness." Sorry to judge Vik, but I am calling you on it. I would love to see a nice new subject about "Muslims who want peace" as penance.

Let's all do it, let's join the peace movement. I will bring scones, samosas, and bagels.

This really is my last post, so PEACE, LOVE

and HAPPINESS.

Khal

Khal Shariff   on  01/27/07  at  04:46 PM    #85

(and falafels)

epilogue:

... khal walks away from the board forever and goes to meditate and drink some tea, thinking about Whittaker and Vik only a little - it's -30 C, so he won't go out, and he hopes that people will give others the benefit of the doubt and that if God has a magic wand he might - just might wave it a little for the middle east - after all - if we are truly religious - we would pray for peace more .... adios

  on  01/27/07  at  05:38 PM    #86

To answer your question in #82, I have no doubt that there are Palestinians who want peace.

In #78 & #80, you brought up the topic of borders. I asked if you recognized the right of Israel to exist. You replied, in effect, that it depends on whether the Israeli border is to the satisfaction of the Palestinians.

This is very contradictory to your position. You say you want peace first and foremost, but then you seem to say that you only support Israel's right to exist depending on whether the Palestinians like its borders. Please correct me if this is not your view.

If you want peace first and foremost, and you want to make equal demands on all parties to put peace first and foremost, then you should demand of all parties to have peace now, given the borders just as they are, especially since Israel has already given land for peace. Do you not agree?

  on  01/27/07  at  06:04 PM    #87

Khal,

No, I am not embarrassed. Please tell me what I have edited out that would change my view.

Were the Muslim Conquests justifiable? Did they not also loot, plunder, and kill indiscriminately?

If the Arabs had recognized Israel and accepted the Palestinian State that was offered in 1947, we would not be having these problems and discussion. Instead they refused the land for the Palestinian State and immediately attacked Israel.

You either believe Israel has a right to exist, or you don't. It's not an issue for fence-sitters. Too many lives have been lost over this.

And loving peace does not necessarily mean to be submissive.

Even Jesus recognizes the right to defend oneself, family, and friends: Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27

Enjoy your falafel and have some baba ghanouj, too!

Mac   on  02/06/07  at  05:22 PM    #88

It is a SIN to be passing around false histories and judging all Islam as it is a SIN to do so to Jewish people, and hell, let�s be inclusive for a change and apply that to all peoples.

That has to apply to Christians too - that is why this article re the Crusades was so important - to erase some of the false history and bearing of false witness.

I feel for Khal. His disgust with the state of the world has forced him to dig in his heels and demand we all talk peace. Unfortunately, that isn't realistic - you can't talk peace with people who want to annihilate you....but obviously he is not to the point personally where he can stare realism in the face. It is indeed frightening.

Again, I feel for him and people like him. Part of me wants to protect them. Part of me wants to shake them silly and scream, "WAKE UP!"

As for Khal being a Christian - I believe he is. I don't like to judge other Christians in their practice. . . But I don't think he truly understands how different Christian thought is from that of radical Islam. If he did he wouldn't compare Christianity and other religions, with Islam. Islam is an entirely different animal.

One more thing. . .. can we just agree to end this "Saladin was peaceful" myth? Good grief. The man was a soldier. He had moments of mercy, he had moments of great cruelty. He was no better or worse than the Crusaders. Another example of the "if we all say it often enough and loud enough it will be true" disease.

  on  03/03/07  at  06:59 PM    #89

lol

I finaly read most of the posts.

Im a converted muslim that is I was born Christian and became muslim. I love Christians most of my family is so.

And I love muslims couse they r my brothers and sisters of faith. I will not judge u like u seem to judge me and all muslim becouse some are bad. And pleas dont say im a jihadist who come here to start hatred or enything.

And about Christianity I know Christianity I was born in a very religios family. My mothers both brothers are schoolers of the Holy book(bible). And what I want to say is that everything ppl here who calls themselfs Christian say is the direct opposite of the words of Christ. Christ could easaly pray to God to punish the ppl who wanted to crusifie him but he didnt. The question is then why? Why didnt he? The answer is simple he is a peace loving man. He rather sacrifice himself then let ppl die becouse of there hatred against him and his belife.

Please ppl Dont do as so meny ppl befor us have done "in the name of religion".

I say that Jihad on ppl becouse they dont belive in islam isent right if u ask why I do that when so meny ppl seems to think the opposite. Thy lack knowlage. The ppl who has knowlage and say that jihad on this matter is OK is ppl who wants power mostly.

Jihad is selfdefence, jihad can never be used as a warfare IF it is not in selfdefence that is.

And about muslims and that they dont want to have peace in the middle-east. I would have to say that isent right eather couse as a real muslim who belives in the Koran they have to accept the israelise becouse even in the Koran it is promised to the Beni Israel (Children of Israel).

What we all must do Jew�s, Christian�s and Muslims is see to our books. Follow the books isted of arguing about who is most right. If a person realy belive in his book depending on whitch book he folows for the moment. He/she will find what the truth is when Death comes. And if we want to talk about it then we have to start of without eny hatred to eatch other and then proceed.

Im not a person who stays very long on blogs so I think I might not come back to type more but if there is enything u can e-mail me. But I will like to see the answers so I will try to log in here again some day soon.

I know im alitle bit late for the descusion u had started but I just found it so sorry for being late but I hope u love me enyway.

We r all ppl from the same father and mother and can easely cooparat.

be kind to me I dont write very good in english so pls dont just type a long blog on that I must learn english.

  on  03/05/07  at  12:09 PM    #90

Qlama, so you're in Sweden, and you converted from Christianity to Islam. First, let's find out your view on a key issue. Do you believe that a Muslim who blows up a bus, train, plane, or restaurant, goes to paradise?

  on  03/05/07  at  02:46 PM    #91

hello vik

First of lets say like this if a person commits suiside he is not garanteed eny paradise but the

garantee is HELL!!

God accourding to Judeism/Christianity/Islam have given us life as a gift to cherrish and we r

not supposed to try to hurry up the prosses. Acctually the biggest and most precious gift

we have been given is the gift of life. Now some ppl use this gift and do good and some do evil.

Now if we look what Allah (God) sayes in the Quran about a person who takes ppls life or takes

his own life.

Sura:4 verse:29-30 God sayes: 29: O you who belive! Eat not up your property among yourselves

unjustly exept it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill youselves

(nor kill one another). Surly, Allah is Most Merciful to you.30: And whoever commits that

through aggression and injustice, We shall cast him into the Fire, and that is easy for Allah.

That is a vers about suicide and if some ppl say that for example "those r non belivers" and

we can kill them. First off this person saying this is going against the word of God, secondly

most likly a person who is willing to do a suicide bombing dosent care who he kills. If we look

in Iraq for example there they do not bomb the soo called non belivers but the bomb eatchother

(muslims). And for this I found another vers in the Quran saying.

Sura:4 vers:93 God sayes: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell;

he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him

a painful chastisement.

So pls ppl we should all love eatchother and come close to oneanother and learn from eatchother

so that we understand more about all religion.

For example some muslim sometimes come up to me and say "in the Christian religion if they commit

rape on small kids they can go and connfess to a priest and they r forgiven"

This is so far off Christianity so I sometime get alitle bit uppset when I hear about ppl talking

like this. But this comes from ignorance and lak of knowlage. We dont want to learn from eatchother

but we see some one do something on the otherside and we quikly say look at them. "THEM""THEM"

what is them if im bad then its me thats bad and not my family or my religion or my contry.

I dont hate enyone. Hate is from satan. We should all hate that witch is hated by God.

But if a person dose enything that God hates and we hate. Then we should hate the act but not

the person aslong as a person is a life he has been given a chanse to be forgiven.

God forgives everything as long as a person realy then I mean realy from his/her heart means it.

For us humans we can never know if a person realy mean it or not but God dosent look or hear of

that witch is comming out from our mouth but he looks in our hearts.

So we shouldent judge enyone couse there is only one who can judge and thats God.

Forgive me if I have said enything that uppsets or confuse u, and forgive me for my poor english.

hope that explains alitle bit of ur Question about what I think will happen to a suiciderbomber.

God speed!! And may he bring light into our hearts and guide us on the path thats narrow.

  on  03/05/07  at  04:06 PM    #92

I asked about Muslims who blow up public places, and you answered about Muslims who commit suicide. This is not the same subject. The Muslims who blow up public places would no doubt say they are not committing suicide, they are going to paradise.

As you yourself point out, many Muslims say that the Koran permits the killing of non-Muslims. You then argued that Muslims who say that are wrong. You yourself are saying that you do not agree with the view of Islam taken by many Muslims.

You quote the Koran, 4:93: "God sayes: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell;

he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for hima painful chastisement."

Surely you notice that this explicitly says, "a believer," not "a person." It is evident that this verse is not to be applied to non-Muslims.

And since you read 4:93, you probably also read 4:89, which says what in fact Muslims are to try to do to non-Muslims:

[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

That is just 4 verses before one that you quoted.

Islam isn't what you think it is. Get out of it as soon as possible, before they get you thinking that it's god's will that you kill non-Muslims.

  on  03/05/07  at  04:54 PM    #93

sorry for not being clear vik

U asked me "Do you believe that a Muslim who blows up a bus, train, plane, or restaurant, goes to paradise?"

My foult that I assumed u meant suicidebombers. But if u mean ppl who bomb placec and they themself dont bowup then as I sayed in the begining of last comment is that The life of a humanbeing is more pressuas to God then enything.

If u wana talk about the verses u just presented about "kill them where ever u find them"

First of all this aya (verse) came down in an accasion that if u like I can present to u. And secondly if we are

about what a person like it sayes in the Quran who dies as a shahid (martyr) in war in islam. Then I would say that this person will come to Paradise but this isent prommised

only in the Quran but a person who protects his religion and dies for it r premited to come to paradise witch ever religion u look at if its Judeism,Christianity or Islam.

But what ppl r doin now is that they r calling there

own fued to be Jihad/Crusade this isent something someone

just can call and say it is and it will be. But for example

as was talked about Lebanon earlyer if the Christians fellt

that muslims was keeping them to not practice there religion

or that they made it hard for them to do so. This ppl can

then call a Crusade. Same as if another contry like Israel was telling muslim to not make there prayers or prevent them from practicing there religion then they could also

Jihad. But right now this isent the case the Israeli goverment dosent prevent muslims from practesing there

religion. Same gose for the Lebanees goverment. So if this ppl call out holywar then it is not right becouse it is not

for the sake of religion but for the sake of getting ground.

This is a big thing to say as a muslim couse meny wouldent

aggree with me on it. Im not saying it becouse of what

I think or want it to be but in Thees three religions we

belive in the Divine Destiny that means that if something

happens to me I shouldent blame the person directly but

if God gave this person permision to hurt me then I should

look at my own actions. It is sad but if u see now for example meny muslims tends to blame America, Europa, Israel

for all bad things that happens to them. This is according to islam its called (shirk) that means making partners with

God. That is in islam the worst sin ever.

Im not going to be 2faced and say that I dont support

terrorism but all r comming to Paradise. That is not true.

If a person bombs someone becouse he isent a muslim isent

going to take him to Paradise. Again if we will quote some verses that say for instance that a person who "dies in the path of Allah will get Paradise" I will say that this is

something that I also belive in. But once again this

bombings and terror act that is happening right now isent

in the path of God. For example palestiniens r not having

war against israelees becouse of God. But these ppl r

fighting becouse they want power and ground they r fighting

to get to control that area. And noone of them is doin it

according to the books. But if u look at the books and want

to get ppl to join u it is very easy to pic verses from all

the books and say "God would like it like this".

What Im saying is Im against all kinds of killings that

happens today acording to ppl "in the name of God".

If a person want to defend himself he must fight fairly.

Not sneek up with a bomb and not go in to the hearts of

citys and kill civilians.

I am not new in islam but I have been muslim for

over 5years now. And becouse of the situation today

in the world I have been going around to find. Peaple with

knowleg and ask of this acts of Jihad. And all the learned

I have met in Saudi when I made hajj and in India and

Bangladesh I even was with a Alim(learned) who lives in Gaza

And even he said that this bombings that israel do on

Palestine is becouse of the sins of them and sayed that if

the muslim wanted help from God they should ask him for help

and not turn to USA, Europe if they realy belive. But this

wars that we see on tv in middleeast is a war for power.

I use to say that its better if the Israely goverment never

left Palestine. Why becouse Hammas, Hisbullah and Fatah r

there saying they fight for the sake of God but in reality

they want power. And if Israel leave them to themself they

will destroy themselfs and make war against eatchother.

And if u see today u can see that this is happening.

Im just trying to say just becouse a person say that he is

doin something in the name of God it dosent mean that it is.

Sorry and forgive me if I said something again that wasent

right. Im not saying this person is better then that person

but we if we realy belive in God should pray to him.

And like I sayed befor dont listen or just do or say what u hear ppl say. But look and even if u see a vers like the

ones both u and me presented. We have to try to understand

the vers why it came and whats the real meaning.

  on  03/05/07  at  06:21 PM    #94

It sounds like you're sincerely against Muslims blowing up public places, even though you are aware that many Muslims disagree with you.

Let me ask you this: do you agree that it was wrong for Muslims to kill people and burn buildings in response to the Danish cartoons that make fun of Mohammed?

  on  03/05/07  at  06:36 PM    #95

hi vik

Im against it couse doing so is like saying that those

pictures realy is of the Profet. I think ppl who reacted too

it just made the pictures a favor. For me those pictures are

of some arablooking person and if ppl realy take those

cartoon seriusly its like saying that those r real pictures

if u know what I mean. I see those as cartoons, there are

even ppl in Iran who makes pictures of jews and say this is

how they r. A person who atack those pictures are just

making those more real then they realy are.

hope that answer ur question

  on  03/06/07  at  02:38 AM    #96

Well, Qlama, it sounds like you are one of the moderate Muslims that so many people are looking for.

In your view, why is it that the vast majority of Muslim leaders do not speak out and say, as you do, that Muslims who blow up public places do not go to heaven?

  on  03/06/07  at  04:36 AM    #97

hi vik

I think that 99% of all ppl who has power wants power and r not 100% honest. I have met alot of learned ppl in islam who say that but this ppl u cant see on tv. I also dont

think that news and tv dont think thats "so good Tv". Its more fun to show ppl

jumping around burning cars and flags and screeming death unto u etc. And they get

more ppl to see there shows. I hope that thees learned comes out and speak.

The thing is that ppl will still say "ok thats u but what about the others who say so and so"

hope that answered it.

  on  03/06/07  at  11:32 AM    #98

I think you may be right. By this view, the vast majority of Muslim leaders, support Muslims who blow up public places, and lead those who, as you note, are "jumping around burning cars and flags and screeming death unto u."

As you note, Islam is dominated by people you oppose, and filled with people doing things that you oppose.

I have previously posted about the work of the Muslim theologian Taha. Here's a quote from Daniel Pipes about Taha's work:

...note the original thinking of the Sudanese theologian Mahmud Muhammad Taha (1909-85). Taha built his interpretation on the conventional division of the Koran into two. The initial verses came down when Muhammad was a powerless prophet living in Mecca, and tend to be cosmological. Later verses came down when Muhammad was the ruler of Medina, and include many specific rulings. These commands eventually served as the basis for the Shari'a, or Islamic law.

Taha argued that specific Koranic rulings applied only to Medina, not to other times and places. He hoped modern-day Muslims would set these aside and live by the general principles delivered at Mecca. Were Taha's ideas accepted, most of the Shari'a would disappear, including outdated provisions concerning warfare, theft, and women. Muslims could then more readily modernize.

Do you agree with Taha's approach?

  on  03/06/07  at  03:36 PM    #99

Hi vik

I see what u mean but the Koran dosent work like that. It is true that not most but all the

Sharia laws did come in Medina. In the time of Mecca it was mostly verses conforting the

Muslims saying for example: When some one got hurt by a non muslim arab that

"this also happend to the profets befor u." if u understand what I mean. We cant divide

the Koran in two couse the Koran is The Words Of God.

But the thing is without changing enything ppl should stop saying that they want for

example: That a muslim in Canada wants the Sharia in Canada and a danish mulsim want

Sharia in Denmark. It dosent work like that.

To have Sharia laws the Contry must first be a muslim contry. And even after that the

ppl who live there must all want this laws. If even one person dosent want it and ppl still

make the laws then this laws dosent apply for him. You have a great example in the

early ages in Spain. It was controlled by muslims, but the laws of Sharia that they had

there didnt apply on Christians and Jews, exept if they themselfs came to a judge and

wanted it.

And u can ask eny Muslim schoalertoday and ask if they think that there is eny contry

in the world to day that is a real muslim contry and all will say NO there isent. Most ppl

look at Iran and Saudiarabia and Sudan and say this is real muslim contrys. But that isent

true. The Sharia laws dosent apply to some cinda ppl in this contrys. Example: a poor

person who steels they cut of the hands. If a ritch man steels nobody dares do enything

including the goverment.

In reality even if a poor person steel u cant cut off his hand. Becouse if he stool something

to eat then the person who judged him will go to hell or get the punishment.

So if u ask me why we muslims dont change the Koran or scip some verses then I have to

say that its not allowed in islam to do so. But meny ppl dont know that Koran isent made

for us to read and practice we read Koran but we practis the practises of the Profet.

When a person practis the practis of the Profet then he is practising The Koran.

Hope that answered the question.

haha sayed that I wouldent be here and discuss so mutch but now im stuck

But now I will be off for a while I will try to come back and continue inshallah.

  on  03/07/07  at  12:13 PM    #100

Again, you appear to be one of the moderate Muslims that so many people are looking for. I'm impressed by your views on the Mohammed cartoons (#95).

As you note (#99), your view of Islam is different from that of the Muslims who run Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan. It is different from that of the Muslims who are, per your post #97, "jumping around burning cars and flags and screeming death unto u etc." It is different from Muslims who say, per your post #91, "that for example 'those r non belivers' and we can kill them."

But you also note (#97) that you have met a lot of learned people in Islam who agree with your views.

What kinds of things are you and your friends doing to persuade other Muslims to agree with your moderate views about Islam? Are you and/or your friends publishing articles or blogs to persuade other Muslims of your views?

Do you feel that Muslims who do not agree with you will try to make trouble for you?

  on  03/07/07  at  02:16 PM    #101

hello again vik

hehe I think im realy stuck here

Thank u for ur compents.

There is meny ppl who has almost the same view as me. I say almost becouse noone but

God realy knows ppls hearts. And he created us all different so there will always be some

difference in thoughts.

And about fearing that other muslims who dose not feel and think like this will hurt me or

make truble for me, I have to say that I dont fear enyone or enything but God.

And about ppl who I talk to and what (we) or (they) r doin to get this message out there.

It is actually a great meny ppl who do that. But most of the nonmuslims dosent see them.

They arent shown on tv and they dont want eny political power, and they only go to

other muslims. So becouse of this this "group" if u even can call it that isent very known to

nonmuslims. Meny contrys goverments muslim and nonmuslim know about them

and dosent prersute to stop them or do eny harm to them. Becouse this "group" dosent

threat them politicaly or in eny other way. For example it is 99% shore that If I with my

muslim name would wana get a visa to Israel I would get a NO!!

But ppl within this "group" get visa without eny hesitation. Even in the US they make it

very easy for them to come and go.

I dont say that 100% of ppl withing this "group" is pure good becouse that wouldent

be true there is always some bad aples. But if u like to know more about them I can give

u a reference to a nonmuslim encyclopedia that tells about enything and everything. And there u can read what this so called "group" is.

It is funny couse this "group" is actually the largest if it was called a "group or

organisation" in todays world of islam. But noone knows about it or talks about it.

It is called Tabligh meaning "The call" in english.

This encyclopedia isent a muslim one or eny muslim friendly it is just info about enything.

Tabligh info

hope that answers it

have a nice day.

  on  03/07/07  at  03:52 PM    #102

Thanks for this excellent info, Qlama.

The First Secular Islam Summit was just held in Florida. There's 11 minutes of excellent video interviews with many of the speakers here. I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about this Summit.

  on  03/07/07  at  04:14 PM    #103

hello vik

Thanx again

I tryed to check the video on the link u gave but I dont know if there is eny specific media

player needed couse I cant see the video. I see the whole page but not the video.

Is there other places I can watch it?

  on  03/07/07  at  06:46 PM    #104

I don't yet know of another place to view the video, but here's info from the video host, MotionBox, on how to view it:

Do I need to download any special software to use Motionbox?

No. Motionbox is entirely Web-based. All you need to get started is a computer with a high-speed (56k or higher) connection to the Internet and Macromedia Flash. If you don't have the latest version of Flash, you can get it for free from the Macromedia site.

What kind of web browser should I use to surf Motionbox?

We're currently compatible with the following browsers:

Macintosh: Safari (version 1.2 and up), and Firefox (version 1.0 and up.)

Windows: Internet Explorer (version 6.0 and up), and Firefox (version 1.0 and up.)

Make sure you have the latest version of your browser to guarantee compatibility.

What are the system requirements?

Motionbox currently works with Windows 98 and up, as well as Mac OS X (we have no plans to support OS 9.)

  on  03/16/07  at  11:26 AM    #105

Qlama, I just did some reading up on Tabligh Jamaat, per your #101.

From the NY Times:

"We have a significant presence of Tablighi Jamaat in the United States, and we have found that Al Qaeda used them for recruiting, now and in the past," said Michael J. Heimbach, the deputy chief of the F.B.I.'s international terrorism section.

Another senior law enforcement official described the group as "a natural entree, a way of gathering people together with a common interest in Islam."

The official added, "Then extremists use that as an assessment tool to evaluate individuals with particular zealousness and interest in going beyond what's offered."

Neither the organization nor Tabligh activists have been accused of committing any crime or of supporting terrorism. Yet the authorities remain alert to what they see as the group's susceptibility to infiltration and manipulation.

And from the abstract of a different NY Times article, on the NY Times web site:

European terrorism officials say Tablighi Jamaat, global army of Muslim missionaries helping to expand their religion and reinforce their faith, is fertile ground for breeding terrorism, although they have never been able penetrate group sufficiently to prove that it plays any direct role; French intelligence official has traced many militants' religious awakening to their membership in movement; most well-known is Zacarias Moussaoui, only person to be charged in United States in connection with 9/11 attacks, who was once Tablighi adherent in France; on Continent, group's main base is in France, and most adherents aer North African of central mosque of Tablighi Jamaat movement, in St-Denis, France

Qlama, it seems to me that you have to be very careful about involvement in an organization like this - not only for yourself, but also for any children you have now or may have in the future. It seems very possible that you could have children that could enter an organization like this, and, without the Christian upbringing you had for yourself, that they could be in danger of encountering radical Islamists, and becoming radicalized.

Michelle   on  03/24/07  at  02:08 PM    #106

That's interesting. Why don't you provide us a list of all the things the Christians did as well? Or is it too exhaustive and impossible to complete?

  on  03/24/07  at  03:01 PM    #107

Michelle, the point is that the Crusades were a response to centuries of attacks made on Christian lands by Islamic forces. You may want to contradict this, but as of yet, you have yet to present information that does so.

  on  03/26/07  at  03:42 PM    #108

Hey again Vik!

Long time noo see. As I sayd befor I might not answer quickly couse I dont have that mutch time behind computers right now. As for the seminar I couldet watch all the

speakers. I watch some of them. Irshad Munji was about the closest i could see ppl making

an efford to make a change to something better. I�t was alot of things I could understand

and even think the same as her but we have also alot of things we dont see eye to eye

on. Also I dont get the name of the book she wrote who was called -The trouble with Islam- it should have been called -The trouble with muslims-. And as for the reformed

TERRORIST I must say how stupid can ppl be for just saying that "ooh this man was a

Terrorist and has now change his ways" and how can they just trust him after being a

terrorist. Its very nice that ppl can forgive and start to trust someone again. But if

this man now was a terrorist and even say that he use to be. Then we have to understand

that meny ppls blood are writen on his hands he has been the couse for meny ppls life. What I want to say is that befor they just forgive him like that I think that they should

Punish him for what he has done. Just becouse he sayes that he has changed that dosent

mean that he has. Only God knows best.

And if they wana do a seminar/summit about what can be changed and so on. They should

have the Seminar/summit with muslims. That is beliving and practising muslims.

What was showed in that I think is a waste of time.

Even the Christian churches when they want to change something calls upon ppl who

are schoolers in Christianity and beliving ppl to change.

U cant put a muslim a atheist a jew a hindu and a budist to try to change the Christian

faith.

And about the info u presented about the Tabligh Jamat. I must say that we all know that

there isent eny place with groups individualls even familys who dont have bad aples.

And if I should be afraid of my kids and if I should take them to the mosque or keep

them in my home becouse there might be some terrorists there It�s beter to just lock them

inside the house couse they can meat that kinda ppl enywhere.

Meny non muslims talking about islam always seem to forget about there own mistake for example:

The Catholic Church

Muslims dont talk about that couse we know that that isent Christianity

but it is the mistake of Christians. So we dont say that Christianity is a religion of

pedofilism and so on couse that isent true.

And if I shouldent take my children to the mosque for fear that some terrorists might talk

them into doin something stupid then maby Christians shouldnt go to church. For fear that

the children might be mollested by the priests.

Both the things are no good.

If we want to teatch our kids about what is right and what is wrong we should ourselfs

make some thime for the kids and teatch them. And best way of teatching is to do that

without eny anger against the ppl we talk about.

I love christians as u know most of my family are christians. I also love muslims as most of

my friends and brothers/sisters of faith are muslims.

So I think that the best way of teatching our children is to do that without hate towards

enyone.

I hope that answers some of the things u asked me and sorry again for my poor english.

Have a nice day and may God bless us all strengthen us in our daily life.

He is the all knowing all seeing all hearing.

  on  03/26/07  at  03:53 PM    #109

qiama here again the link I presented came out wrong but I will send it here again

The Catholic Church

  on  03/26/07  at  09:46 PM    #110

Qlama, your link re: the Catholic Church is strikingly different from the Islamic things you are referring to.

The link on the Catholic Church discusses priests doing things which they, and which all Catholic religious leaders, agree, is against their faith.

But the Islamists who blow up planes, trains, restaurants, and buses, say that what they are doing is in the name of their faith. Not only that, the vast majority of Islamic leaders worldwide, do not contradict this view. The vast majority of Islamic leaders worldwide, have not spoken out to say that a Muslim who blows up a plane, train, restaurant, or bus, does not go to paradise. It is undeniable that the leaders of your religion want Muslims to believe that a Muslim who blows up a public place, goes to paradise.

So your point that those priests do not represent Christianity is well taken; but it is impossible to apply the same logic to Muslims who blow up public places.

An even bigger shocker is also in your post:

And if I should be afraid of my kids and if I should take them to the mosque or keep

them in my home becouse there might be some terrorists there It�s beter to just lock them

inside the house couse they can meat that kinda ppl enywhere.

It appears that you have just said that Muslims who are terrorists are so common that Muslims can meet those kinds of people everywhere that Muslims meet.

That is an astonishing, shocking, indictment of the current state of Islam today.

  on  03/27/07  at  01:28 PM    #111

Vik pls dont twist my words U know as I know that there isent only islamic terrorists in the

world. If u dont know this then we live in 2 different worlds. What I meant is that they can

meat bad ppl (terrorists) criminals and sutch eny where. I didnt say that its only islam who

has terrorists.

As for the Chatolic church insident that happend and are still happening Its alitlebit funny

that u say that this isent the same thing.

For example if a person who belive in Christ and still dose bad things(sins) but in his heart

he have Jesus then he will accourding to Christianity be forgiven. Why? becouse in

Christianity Jesus died on the cross for the sin of men.

So by saying that priests condem it or say that christians condem it is funny. Couse it dose

not matter if christians do couse through the belife he will be forgiven.

So if this priests who did this acts have jesus in there hearts it dosent realy matter.

They WILL be forgiven!! And they will get paradise!!

Again I will say clean up your own house befor u start to clean others.

I dont tolorate bombing ppl and comiting suicide and I have my book behind me.

One of the diference between Islam and Christianity is that in islam we dont follow

imams(prists) as the Christians do. Meny muslims in error do follow imams but if u ask

a person whith some knowlage about islam he will tell u that islam dont follow ppl but

we follow God.

And saying that Christianity all condem it is rather not right! even in the

scriptures(ex.Old testament) there is alot of stories about prophets and holy men who

did acts that isent allowed in the eyes of God accourding to all belifes.

In islam we dont belive in this kinda things couse we belive that the Prophets are better

then other men in keaping them self pure.

So this stories u can find in the bible is 100% manufactured by this kinda men (The Prists)

who molested small children.

Why? so that they seem good in the eyes of ppl.

So if someone askes "Oh dear father(prist) why did u have sexuall relation with my whife

while u knew that I was married to her"

The priast can answer "My son if u read in the bible even David had sexuall relations with

the whife of his friend, knowing that she was hes whife"

Im not just throwing this things out but if u like

I can give u exact verses where this is writen in the bible.

I think its better to not talk bad about religions at all so this might be my foult saying this.

But why dont u think that this things isent sayed by other Muslims.

Couse they are afraid of saying something bad about Christ and The Book of God.

While this isent eny problems for non muslim to talk bad about islam.

As u know I use to be a christian and I was a beliving christian beliving in the book

beliving in Christ. I still belive in The holy Bible and Christ but I also know that alot of if is

manufactured.

So I do know Bible couse that was my favorit book and still is a book I realy Love and hold

close too my heart.

And as for the answer to Michelle about the crusade.

U coude have given so mutch more resons than that. Saying that means that in some

years muslims in the arab contrys can go around and kill christians couse they have killed

them for centuries.

Or to make it easy we can say that Africans can now go out and kill europeans becouse of how they have been threating them for the last centurieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.

It is never ok too kill someone.

Life and death is both from God.

I love The Tora, The Bible and The Quran. They are all from GOD.

I pray and hope that God forgives me for talking like this.

  on  08/27/07  at  12:32 PM    #112

I have an excerpt from an ancient text, the declaration of war by Mahomet, son of the Moslem Ottoman Emperor, upon Leoplold of Germany.

“I assure you that you shall feel the weight of my Power; and for that you have put your hope and expectation in the strength of some Towns and Castles, I have given command to overthrow them, and to trample under feet with my Horses, all that is acceptable and pleasant in your Eyes, leaving nothing hereafter by which you shall make a friendship with me, or any fortified places to put your trust in: For I have resolved without retarding of time, to ruin both you and your People, to take the German Empire., and to leave in the Empire a Commemortion of my dreadful Sword, that it may appear to all, it will be a pleasure to me, to give a publick establishment of my Religion, and to pursue your Crucified God, whose Wrath I fear not, nor his coming to your Assistance, to deliver you out of my hands. I will according to my pleasure put your Sacred Priests to the Plough, and expose the Brests of your Matrons to be Suckt by Dogs and other Beast”

“You will therefore do well to forsake your Religion, or else I will give Order to Consume you with Fire. This is enough said unto you, and to give you to understand what I would have, in case you have a mind to know it.”

OTTOMAN DECLARATION OF WAR FEBRUARY 20th 1684

When you look at this text you will realise that this Medieval mentality still exists in the minds of radical moslems in the world today.They wish to take the world backwards several hhundred years. The intention of Mahomet endures today in the Middle east.

  on  08/31/07  at  11:29 AM    #113

And who won in the end? Leopald! The victory was at St. Gotthard and the surrender terms to the sultan were far more generous than that which would have been expected.

So much for the power of the self-proclaimed prophet! Thanks be to the aid and influence of the Crucified G-d, who is just and compassionate.

  on  09/03/07  at  07:11 PM    #114

Tis not a surprise that this site's main offenders are jews. The only Dhimmitude is that of the 'filthy goyim' by their jew masters. Funny, cos when people wake up and see what is written about Jesus in Sanhedrin in the Talmud, you 'superior' ones will be hanging from the lamposts. Or how the Goyim (Cattle) are below Jews.

Satan's minions, slaves of Rothschild, your deceptions are being unravelled daily. Hitler will have nothing on what the global citizenry will do to you, should they awaken from their slumber.

And as for the christian masses, when will you stop dying for Israel? when will you stop sending your boys to the Middle East to fight for the people who killed Jesus?

And it is a scurrilous lie that Jews in Iran must wear a Yellow star. Iran has more Jews than any other muslim nation, and even are apportioned their own MP.

  on  09/04/07  at  03:48 PM    #115

Thank you for your remark, hmm.

You could not have illustrated your ilk better.

Assistant Village Idiot   on  09/04/07  at  06:55 PM    #116

Wow. It looks like the Muslim world could use its own snopes.com.

hmm, there is just a chance - a chance, mind you - that people in the world who think the Jews have more justice in this situation than the Muslims, might have read a thing or two about the subject. When a Muslim nation has had free press for a few decades, get back to me on how the facts have shaken out, okay?

  on  09/08/07  at  01:16 AM    #117

this is the most neo nazi facist zionist site i have ever seen, good job vik, dead jews in germany are proud your a nazi

  on  09/08/07  at  01:47 AM    #118

Smtih, please provide your reasoning, if any.

khal007   on  09/27/07  at  09:49 PM    #119

Qiama + Vik + khal007 =

1 step in the right direction.

A long journey begins.

Amen.

  on  10/01/07  at  03:56 PM    #120

These 'people' are the scourge of the earth. Have you ever tried to reason with one of these 'people?' They twist things and continue to twist them until they believe it themselves.

Cases in point: Do you know that if you are in Egypt and buy something from a street vendor and give them a $100 (Egypt moneY) for something that costs $20 (Egypt money) they will claim to have no change and keep the difference. True story and I have heard it from different people that have been there. So in general they are not honest and cannot be trusted.

The Prophet Mohamound was a rapist and a polygamist. He married a 9 year girl when he was in his 50s and also had in the order of 12+ wives.

He also murdered many, many people. How an entire religion is founded on the 'scumbag mohamoud' is totally beyond me.

Now, we have an entire society of muslims whose main directive in life is to kill ANYBODY else who is not a muslim an infidel....and their jihads are to kill non muslims.

So what are we doing as a society about it? Let look and see some small examples.

Our society in the west has promoted tolerance and acceptance and a level playing field for those of other backgrounds or religions or situations. In Canada the elections officials just made it legal for muslim women to go to polling stations with their faces covered, and thus not letting the elections official see their face. The Prime Minister says 'no' but there is nothing he can do about it. Great. Just one small side example. The point is they use our own laws against us and we are so complacent that we don't really do anything about it.

In a filthy, backward muslim country they will not even LET women vote. Or how about the Tailiban executing a 15 year old Afghan teenager because he was carrying american dollars on his person.

The bottom line is: these people want to kill us non-muslims.

Enough people. There is no negotiating with these animals.

Nuclear Weapons WERE MADE to use on muslims. Why don't we just rid our selves of each and every last one of these animals while we still have the upper hand. Take the oil too and do EVERYBODY a BIG FAVOR.

Shocking? On this side of muslim countries NOT having a nuclear weapon these comments above probably seem far fetched and out-of-line. Post muslim countries getting AND using a nuclear weapon we will be asking ourselves: why didn't we wipe them them ALL OUR when we had our chance. We knew they were animals, we knew there is no negotiating with them, why didn't we have the courage to wipe them out.

Does anybody really think that if a muslim country gets a nuke that they will just 'sit on it.' No--they will use it immediately.

Genocide was MADE for Muslims.

Kill the cancer. All of it. Now.

Happily all my towel wearing jihadist out there; the rest of non-scumbag-mohamet (or however you spell this CLOWN's NAME) are getting sick and tired of you jokers and we are ALL About to come down on you.....and....H-A-R-D.

Khal Shariff   on  10/01/07  at  09:30 PM    #121

wow rye. you suck.

gross.

  on  10/03/07  at  03:24 AM    #122

Khal Shariff,

Sounds muslim. Get over it.

The mainstream view in the west is that we are sick and tired of muslim, islamic bull-s**t.

Check out this link to see my point: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fc_1179231252

This is a US Congressman telling that we ought to say right now that we ought to nuke Mecca should a nuclear attack ever happen on us soil.

Since this is a politician you can assume that his remarks are somewhat tempered and reserved...but the interviewer responds by saying that the majority of americans would agree with his statement.

The gloves are coming off muslim towel heads. We've had enough and now we are going to put you back into the spot where you came from.

By-the-way: there is also a mainstream movement gaining force to deport muslim/islamist whether or not they are naturalized in the west. Take you jihad and go back to the middle east and live in poverty. ...or off of oil revenues because the middle east certainly does not produce any products or services.

So wow, you ARE gross and the debate is coming to a quick end.

Get over it, deal with it, the pendulum is swinging back to deal with this non-sense.

Khaled Shariff   on  10/03/07  at  08:05 AM    #123

Sounds Muslim, but I'm Catholic.

I'm not surprised that the haters showed up.

You don't even realize that you're being manipulated.

Deported where? I was born in North America.

So let's see

a) I'm not Muslim.

b) I'm not going anywhere/

c) You're being rude, insensitive, racist, anti-constitutional, therefore anti-Americam, prejudiced, indifferent, hate-mongering, murderous, and crazy (nukes, what?).

Gross doesn't even cover it. Muslims are not your enemy, people who hate you are, and you're giving people reasons.

But, I forgive you.

lol eat that.

Khaled Shariff   on  10/03/07  at  08:23 AM    #124

BTW, I am simply asking you to be peaceful. We need to all work together, for God's sake please.

This doesn't seem to be about religion. Those people who attacked America are murderers. But for the sake of the world, you have to realize that America sets an example for how to play fairly. It's in your blood, it's in your laws and it's in your best intentions. On 9/11 I was working in a large news organization in Canada. I knew what what going to happen, when those fundamentalists with Muslim names flew into the towers. It was horrible on a level of dismay, but also personally, my name was always just "cool." I had been shielded in my life from past tensions, and it was always in the past (the Crusades, etc), or "over there."

Everyone has to work together. I subscribe to the jpost, I encourage, when I have a moment, an open dialogue. I don't take sides, but I do take the side of the law and justice, on which our western civilizations were built. One needs to apply the same laws, if one truly feels they are universal, to everyone in the world. That's how you bring people along; they want to believe in an ideal, and for the most part, it works.

This is a very bad time, but we'lll get through it, the good in people will prevail. That's what I truly believe, that's what I state as being my position. Please don't be gross in your statements, Ryan, please be fair and realize that you are also talking about people who are young, who have families, who dream of ideals as well.

There are bad people in the world of all stripes, find them, and blame them, don't destroy all of us, and our values in the process.

That's all.

Take care my friend.

Khal.

water softening   on  12/22/08  at  03:10 AM    #125

Many of the crusaders' actions were in opposition to the principles of the Bible. This doesn't mean the crusaders were not Christians (though some of them may not have been), for even Christians do wrong. It does mean that not all actions of Christians or those who claim to have God's approval are in fact approved by God.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:03 PM    #126

Khal, this is to you, and if you are a good person, Muslim or no, I am your friend.  If you are the fanatical hard core demonically evil types shown in the video at  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY9a6Oy8UVI then hear me and hear me well, if anyone like myself ever gets control, Khal, be very afraid, I, as Rye said above, I will flatten every mosque on the planet.  Muslims, you have ran and hidden in mosques before, and it has served you well.  You have plotted terrorist attacks from mosques, but trust me Khal, if myself or anyone like myself EVER calls the shots, no cave deep enough for you Osama, no more Wurzistans, Peshwars, Demonicstans, GLASS, Khal.  And let me tell you this little thing Khal.  There is a charming little video,  I will provide you with a link to it shortly, and, my little joke (yes, I tell jokes, but then somethings I tell you are not jokes) to my non-American friends is to tell them "I know the rest of the world thinks Americans are arrogant, but we are really quite humble. As proof, watch this charming little song:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnv8UvKFzc  Now, let me assure you that if you are one of those in the video above, Akmadedishitjad of the Islamic Republic of Evil, or one of those bearded buzzard sword wielding types, I am your worst nightmare, and the lovely little song really does not adequately convey to you just how determined I would be to ensure, Khal, that there would be NO ISLAM ON THE EARTH, banned, forever, I would burn, Khal, every Quran on the planet, and I would chase down every demonic sword wielding bearded buzzard on the planet, relentless, if you think Jihad is relentless, then just get a load of me.  Do not think all Americans are like that stupid Dhimmicrat girly guy Harry Reid, no no, there are some very Dirty Harrys here.  If you are decent, a victim of Islam, and that is what I consider you, at least the estimated 65% if Muslims who are not demonic, I would do everything in my power to rescue you from your evil religion, especially the women.  Just be a good man, and I am your friend.  So what follows, I have sent to every major network in America, and it lays out how I perceive Islam, what I have taken in, and that I cannot make a final judgement, I present the things I have found, I tell you to look, and then let you make your own decision.  And so for Islamics who may read this, here is what I tell you, I absolutely love diversity and my fellow man, all races, all religions, .... but if you are evil I will do everything in my power to expose and bring total and utter destruction on you.  Letter follows:

  on  12/24/08  at  04:06 PM    #127

John, I am sure you do not realize it, but your coverage is doing grave damage to your country, little by little, the lies, little by little.  I refer to the story you now have on http://www.wral.com about Muslim outrage about the Ft. Dix verdict.  The pattern is very familiar, Islamics get caught, they start squealing about how innocent they are and this is just a great big misunderstanding.  It has a name, it is "al Taqiyya."  Google this, but I will boil it down for you, it is from the Quran, and it basically says that it is ok to lie cheat steal kill UNBELIEVERS but not so to BELIEVERS. This is what Islam IS, Islam is NOT what you think it SHOULD BE, this is not a SHOULD BE world, this is an IS world.  Now I know that you probably dismiss this, and so I am going to tell you where to look so that you can seek the truth for yourself.  The truth will not seek you out, you must seek it out. John, if you do not have the TRUTH, then just what do you have?  You do not seem to understand that Islamics see us a just a bunch of soft, stupid, girly guy, Harry Reid types, not Dirty Harry types at all, you understand.   

Take a look at what is happening in Europe.  Do you not understand that those riots by "youths," who are really Islamic, mostly, these are merely dress rehearsals for what is to become of Europe.  And of course, in your PC reporting, you do not call them Islamics, one reading your stuff would never know unless they already knew, you write PC drivel about how upset they are about their economic situation, they are such victims, blah, blah, blah, the same storyline that the AP has for the Fort Dix verdict, lots of victimology.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:08 PM    #128

Read "America Alone," by Mark Steyn, then you may start to understand.  There will be a future day in which those riots do not subside, they will sweep Europe, each one of these blown out of proportion excuses to riot things is but a sizing up of their strength and numbers, and then the moment they decide that their numbers and strength are sufficient, they will sweep Europe, and John, you and most Americans, when they realize what has happened, and how blind they have been, all this "All religions are peaceful and tolerant,Islam is a religion, Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion" stuff.  John, you are being warned, heed the warning, do the required reading, seek the truth.  If you do not, I see this day in the future, don't know how far out it is, read the book above, and read the book whose title I do not recall, but it does have the word "Europe" in it, and it is by Bruce Bawer, and it says the same thing.  John, there are many such books, read them, and make your own decision.  

And so John, and you of the AP, here is your reading and research assignment, here is your required reading.  This is an assignment that you should take very seriously indeed, do not put it off, do not trivialize this.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:10 PM    #129

If you do, I see that day when the riots by those "youths" you write of, tell us it is all about victimology, those riots sweep Europe, the cries of "Allah Akbar," the beheadings, the burnings, and then yours and others have your belief system completely and utterly shattered, then crumbling down figuratively in a horrible metaphoric replay of the World Trade Towers crashing to the ground.  John, do not contribute to this, this has nothing to do with victimology, John, this has to do with RELIGION, and just what if there is NO common ground between Islam and the rest of the civilized world?  Why do think Islam is just another religion?  Why? What books have you read?  Or is this just a triumph of hope over experience?  Is it that you heard the story, but somehow dismissed it, about the British school teacher whose students named a teddy bear Muhammod and had to flee the country, she would have been beheaded to cries of Allah Akbar, had the world not been watching and so she was protected.  John, how do you not see this?? And the Danish cartoons?   

Look at it this way John, the things in Mumbai, I am sure you know of this.  You probably tell yourself something like "A few fringe nutjobs, not the true Islam, Isalm is a religion of peace."  Again, John, how do you know this? Is this problem in India just a recent isolated thing? 

  on  12/24/08  at  04:12 PM    #130

Please go to http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/32812  I told you that I would tell you where to look, and so the above, please read it carefully.  And now, John, after you have absorbed the above, this question for you:  Where are the teddy bear bear rioters, where are the cartoon rioters?  Where are they?????  Where is the outrage, if Islamics are so easily offended about any perceived insult? Do you fail to understand that this is NOT an insult to them, this is and has been their intent since Muhammod went up on that mountainside and started hearing voices in 610 AD.  

Next John, why do Islamics come to America? Or Europe? Who asked them to come, or do they have a right to come to "escape persecution?"  Two books for you, as they both address this in much detail: "The Sword of the Prophet," and its sequel, "Defeating Jihad: How the West Still May Prevail in Spite of Itself," both by Serge Trifkovic.  Oh, don't believe him, he is biased or something?? Well, there are many others to choose from.  Read them.

So it is ok for Isalmics to come here, you are ok with worrying about your friends and family going to the mall, a football game, and will they come back or will they be slaughtered by religious fanatics?  This is ok with you, with your children, and with the children of your children???  Far fetched? 

  on  12/24/08  at  04:15 PM    #131

Go talk to the good people of Mumbai and see how far fetched this is.  Or even better, go to the Food Lion at the intersection of **** and ***, and find an Indian cashier named "Kavita," like I did Sunday, go talk to Kavita like I did.  Very briefly, you understand, while paying for groceries.  Let me replay it for you:  "Kavita, where are you from?  .... I am from India....I see, have things quieted down over there, is everything ok there? ...There is much trouble there, very bad, the Muslims, they are crazy and they just try to kill everybody."  Think I am making this up, well go talk to her.  Is this what you want for yourself and your loved ones? Or do you not believe it is so, do you think this is some sort of conspiracy theory alien abduction crazy person thing?? I wish it was, yes I do.  

Next on your homework list, listen and watch this short video where Bill Mahler interviews Hirsi Ali, and listen to her very carefully when she talks of Islam's compatibility with the rest of the world, listen and watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKOw7VoRiog Now, you may need to watch and listen to that one twice, and also let me point out that little word Ms. Ali used at the end, "Dhimmi," as in the Dhimmicratic party of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, and yes, Harry Reid, and no, not Clint Eastwood in Dirty Harry.  Research this word, Dhimmi, and find out what the "Jizya" tax is, read "Eurabia, Land of Dhimmitude" by Bat Y'eor, read this in the hope that we do not sail into oblivion with Harry Reid types of the Dhimmicratic party at the helm.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:18 PM    #132

Next for you, your next assignment is to watch this short little video, and see if you pick up on a common theme, sit back, relax, enjoy this snitty littly ditty from youtube:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY9a6Oy8UVI  .....Was that not charming, John?  Is the picture perhaps becoming a bit more focused for you, or no?  Do you cling to the belief, no not the belief, the HOPE, the PRAYER, that somehow all of this is not true, we can continue to elect the Dhimmicrats of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Freddie/Fannie Boy Lollipop Franks, do you still really think this is a religion of peace, and that there are just a few fringe elements out there, that 99.9% of Islamics that give the rest a bad name??? Do you fail to hear the Deafening Silence that is Islamics world wide being silent about Mumbai? 

  on  12/24/08  at  04:20 PM    #133

you sir are an uninformed bigot. your ignorance is both breathtaking and disturbing. you know nothing about europe.

as for the risk to your loved ones at the mall, they are at far more risk from some gun-toting home-grown nutjob.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:20 PM    #134

Or are you starting to realize the Awful Truth?  The truth that any sane person wants to believe, no, hope so badly, that it is just not so?  One thing for you to replay, John, and the others of the AP who report all this feel good PC drivel about how the Islamics are victims, just misunderstood, let them assimilate, and no, they will not do Mumbai in America, no no no. Replay in your mind in this past video, the World Trade Towers collapsing, and then think of what your belief system is going to do when you see what happens to Europe.  Just how will you react to that??  Will you in the news business be able to look at yourselves in the mirror? 

Next on our Magical Mystery Tour, you maybe "heard" the silence from the Muslim world about Mumbai and every other atrocity they have committed since the seventh century. This dvd movie will show you not silence, but "A general expression of delight" that was the reaction of the Muslim world to 9/11. No John, this was not a reaction of silence at all by the Islamic World.  Watch as the Palistineans replay over and over the planes flying into the World Trade Towers, watch the clucking Islamic woman, jumping up and down with jubilation, not only in Palestine, but the Muslim world in general.  Now take this on board: just a few months ago GW Bush sent the Palistineans $500 million dollars, money to people who hate us. Oh, but wait you say, what about the oppression of the Palistinian people? That could not possibly be just yet another Great Big Lie could it? .

  on  12/24/08  at  04:23 PM    #135

Go to http://www.bigpicweblog.com/exp/index.php/weblog/comments/dialogue_with_a_reader_from_egypt_about_the_history_of_israel_and_the_pales and read the true story about the so called Palistinian people and their oppression, the story that no one seems to know. Why do they not know John?  Are you doing your job, and doing it with integrity? That little dvd that 88888 TV and no one else on TV would play, except FOX and CNN, they would not play this dvd, and so it came bundled with the News & Observer and other newspapers nationwide.  And of course you know why those networks and stations would not play the dvd, don't you?  Yes, now you are gaining on it, are you, or no? You did not want to offend Islamics, did you, as they are just oh so sensitive about anything they do not want said about their precious religion. Nevermind they do not give a hoot about your religion, you did pick up on that charming little part from the Verse of the Sword, Sura 9:5, "...Slay the Unbelievers wherever you find them...but if they say the required prayers, make the required offerings,...then let them go their way, for Allah is Most Merciful and Oft Forgiving..."  And while we are right there, another little game, remember that al Taqiyya thing we talked about above, the It is ok to lie to Unbelievers, as a matter of fact lying is divinely ordained so long as it is not to a Believer.  I talk to people, including Islamic shop owners. At work, of course, I cannot do this, it is forbidden, but out in town I can.  I do not tell them that I have read book after book on Islam, they can try to deceive me, and I just smile and grin and nod and grunt pleasantly, that little ole country boy that just fell off a turnip truck schtik, they probably would tell me that if my IQ ever reaches 50, then I should sell. 

  on  12/24/08  at  04:25 PM    #136

I just let them tell me whatever they wish, and they do seem to be quite charming and nice folks, and maybe they are.  But you do know what Winston Churchill said about Islam, do you not?  "The greatest retrograde force in the history of mankind is Islam....while individual Moslems may show splendid individual qualities, all who follow this religion fail to progress socially..."  For the exact quote, and while you are there, read the quote from John Quincy Adams on Islam, and then get your arms around two things that have changed since their words were spoken:  Petrodollars and the world's highest birth rates.  And John, if you really understand what I am telling you, if you can no longer deny it, then just maybe you are becoming frightened. Or no.  But for you as well, Churchill and JQA at http://www.bigpicweblog.com/exp/index.php/weblog/comments/john_quincy_adams_on_radical_islam  

Now, back to the Islamic merchants and little ole country boy smiling and totally stupid me being explained by them as to what a peaceful religion Islam is (and for them, it may be, but studies estimate that anywhere from 15 - 35% are the hard core fanatically demonic ones, and understand this well, the remaining 65% of them will say absolutely nothing, out of fear, tacit support, or both.  They tell me "In Islam, the Quran tells us that to kill a single human being is to kill all of mankind."  They do not suspect that I know, and I also know that they know this as well, that in Islam, they have two books of the Quran, the earlier book of Mecca, and the much more violent and truculent book of Medina.  And so all this prattle and pablum like cited above, this is from the first book.  But in Islam, there is no possiblilty that anything in the Quran can be wrong, the Quran to them is not an INTERPRETATION of the words of god, it is the actual word of god, it cannot be interpreted, it can only be obeyed.  Absolute.  And so when there are contradictions between the first and second books, and there are, since the word of god cannot be wrong, this is handled by the principle of Abrogation, this meaning, the latter verse, chronologically, supercedes the earlier.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:29 PM    #137

And the very latest chapter, just like Beethoven's final symphony, that would be Sura 9, and the Verse of the Sword, the "Convert, or Die, or submit to Dhimmitude" verse, that is sura 9:5.  The Quran is not put together chronologically, however, no no no, the earlier kinder verses, many of those are in the final chapter. That clever Muhammod. And so they tell me this stuff, and I pretend not to know, I do not argue this with them, I just act like I am just so relieved and happy to find that Islam is really a religion of peace, yes I am.  My little Karma "what goes around comes around" for them, my version of al Taqiyya for them. But the point is this, that single verse, the Verse of the Sword, according to Islamic scholars (see the Trifkovic books mentioned elsewhere)supercedes all the verses commonly quoted by Islam Apologists to support that Islam is a religion of peace.  People feel good to hear this sort of thing, they want to believe it, they are this way and so why are Islamics not this way, they say, and so they do not read about it, do not expose these assertations to the requisite critical inquiry for any kind of true understanding or enlightenment, they want to believe it, so they do.  Walk around in the supermarkets, malls, ... look at the people, good, hurried, and do you think they seek the truth? Read books?  No, what they do is watch the CBS Evening News and read the ******** and they do not hear the truth,they hear and read a lot of stuff that will offfend no one at the very expense of truth.  They go to our public schools, taxpayer funded, and they will hear nothing of the threat of Radical Islam, because it may offend someone. A waste of taxpayer money.  Hector Berlioz wrote the French National Anthem, and a stirring one it is, the Marseilleise.  But maybe, just maybe, not only France, but all of Europe and the USA as well, should change our national anthems to another quite famous piece from Hector Berlioz:  "March to the Scaffold," the signature piece of his indeed fantastic "Symphonie Fantastic."  Or maybe I am just wrong, maybe I have taken in all of these books and movies, and saw something that is just not there, maybe??? Well, this is why I am telling you this, I am very distrubed and frightened about what I see, and so I wonder if I am not seeing the right thing, and so I provide you with what I see, my sources, my rationale, in the hope that IF I am correct, I can help you to see the truth, the true Christmas gift of the TRUTH, that is, I feel, my civic duty, to reveal what I see to you. 

  on  12/24/08  at  04:31 PM    #138

You guys are laughable.

At least respect the time of year and give it a rest.

All these conspiracies are the same reason people fight.

GIVE IT A REST.

GIVE  THE THREAD A REST.

It's just a hateful (99%) spume of ill will.

Go enjoy the holiday.

  on  12/24/08  at  04:32 PM    #139

 And to truely hope I am wrong. 

And John, this has been quite charming, has it not, a bit like a Winter Holiday Season Easter Egg Hunt, if you will.  But I need to segue into the rest of the day.  But I will close with this, the author I mentioned above, Serge Trifkovic, meet him by renting on dvd "Islam: What the West Needs to Know About Radical Islam."  Oh, and the most frightening thing of all about this and other similar dvds, that would be who is telling you these things. John, you may think this is El RushBoRamBo Limbaugh sitting in an armchair talking to Shan Hannity, telling you these things.  You are in for a very rude shock when you see who is telling you things in those movies.  Hint: rewatch the Bill Mahler-Hirsi Ali video above again.(Oh yes, I shall share this with El RushBoRamBo, ShaunBo, Fox, CNN,the N&O, and the AP). And then watch "Suicide Killers," then rent "Islam Against Islamics."

Your last assignment, John, is to google "Cassandra" and let us hope I am not a Cassandra.  And John, I do not mean that I am not a Cassandra because I am not a female (although I am enormously sensitive, and could perhaps be considered at least somewhat feminine because of this bountiful sensitivity.) Find out who Cassandra was.  And John, Jefferson said, "The Informed Citizen is the Cornerstone of Democracy," and so this homework assignment I have bestowed upon you is actually part of your job to complete.  The things I have told you above are known by what, 0.1% of Americans, and why is this so?  Does it have something to do with what is seen on the CBS Evening News, what is on http://www.wral.com , all the torrents of feel good PC drivel that pours out of our TV sets, we just love the pretty girls and talking head guys making us all feel so good and magnaminous, us enlightened Americans.  And so they went out in droves November 4th and voted for what they did, did they not, and just what do you think your role was in that.  We just cannot get enough of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John "Marine Hero" Murtha, Barney Franks, Gregory Meeks, Maxine "California Freeloading" Waters, ....Maybe Nancy has a sister? Maybe we can clone her, these Dhimmicrats, we just cannot get enough of them, it seems.  If you have not meet some of the Dhimmicrats mentioned above,  I introduce them to you in, I promise, your final homework assignment, watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs  And for your Winter Holiday Shopping list, I suggest a great insightful read for you, something for the mind, none of this sitting around playing Playstation2 and getting fat stuff for you, how about reading "Inquiry, Insight, Intelligence, and Inspiration: The Four Horsement of Effective Governmental Function," by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

  on  12/25/08  at  08:57 AM    #140

Doug, Doug, I do hope you are right, but what if you are not?  And Khal, as well.  You must realize that we are way past the third grade or whatever you do stuff of "IS....IS NOT.....IS....."  So Doug, and Khal, on this Christmas morning, all I can do is to tell you is where you to look, and you, if not intellectually bankrupt, will go to these places, you will take all the short videos in, you will watch all the dvds, you will read all the books.  Please do not fail to do this, and do not just read a few words that you do not agree with and immediately resort to namecalling.  Do you not realize that, in view of the length of what I provided you with, as it was indeed lengthy, that there is no way that you could have done this.  Do you not see it?  There it was coming at you in 500 word gulps, in 120 second gaps, if you have ever posted anything above 500 words, you will know this constraint of 120 seconds.  So Doug, Khal, do you not see that there was no way that you could have done anything more than seen a few words that you did not like, you could not have done the required reading, so you immediately launch into name calling.  Your comments were inserted between my 500 words with 120 second gaps, and so do you not see that you were subjugated by your emotional self and not your rational self?? A very gentle suggestion, in any discussion, you do not want to be the one controlled by your emotional self, you want to be the one that is in no hurry to respond, you want to take it all in, do the required reading, hear what the other person is saying, not trying to immediately and emotionally respond without processing what is being said, you want to be governed by your rational self. 

  on  12/25/08  at  09:01 AM    #141

These things I have told you are grave indeed, and trust me, I do hope that you are right and I am wrong.  But please do understand, I feel that it is my duty to my children and to their children to speak as to what I see, if I see things that I deem dangerous.  This is the duty of any parent.  Doug and Khal, I am very alarmed at the things that I have related to you.  This is not name calling, never find yourself name calling. Never.  Trust me on this, Doug and Khal, your rational self, not your emotional self, and be  in no hurry to respond, take it all in, do the required reading, mull it about, then and only then draw your conclusions and formulate your response.  Do these things and they will serve you well.

So, even though you will never know me, let me tell yourself just a tiny bit about me.  Whether you be black, Hindu, Jewish, or even Islamic, my religion is very simple, I do not even feel that I need to sit in a congregation to know this, it is "Do your very best for the man standing in front of you, you do not need to make sacrifices for any God, if you do your very best to make the lot of every man and woman you come into contact with better, you will indeed sleep well."  I did not read this anywhere, those are my most simple and cherished beliefs.  When I told you that I love all GOOD people, I was telling you the truth. TRUTH.

  on  12/25/08  at  09:03 AM    #142

And in closing this Christmas morning here in the US, I am going to try to do just this very thing for you, Doug & Khal, and anyone else going this way. I am going to try to give you a gift, one that costs me nothing but the few moments it takes me to type it.  You may not find this useful, but if you are musically inclined, you may find this useful for the rest of your life.  At this moment, I am tuned to 89.7, listening to WCPE's 100,000 watt listener - supported and powered 24/7 commercial free classical music stream, available in central North Carolina and southside Virginia.  But for those afar, this for you at www.theclassicalstation.org or www.wcpe.org Do yourself a favor, go there now, and find any of several internet streams for this programming.  And not only for Christmas day.  Find the tab in the upper left hand corner that reads "Today's Music."  If you are resonant for this level of music, and of course I know that not everyone is, this is hopefully a wonderful gift for you, and this in the spirit of making the lot of all one touches the very best that one can.  But this being Christmas day, and for all the days leading up to Christmas day, it is classical Christmas music, not just classical music.  Although very good, this is not Bing Crosby singing "White Christmas," and that sort of thing.  This is Bach, Handel,  indeed the entire Messiah is presented in segments during the Christmas season.  And at times, a single segment, all of it.  This is all the great choral performances conducted worldwide, some in English, many not.  This is worldwide classical music, the music of the masters, not just American.  At this instant, Handel's Messiah, "For Unto Us a Child Is Born," and if you do not know this, you are truely missing a wonderful thing.

These thoughts for you Christmas day, and indeed, whatever faith you are, Jewish, Hindu, Yule, .... health, happiness, and my very best wishes for you, across the waves, worldwide.

  on  12/25/08  at  11:51 AM    #143

It is not we who are name-calling sir.

You can make your point without doing the "Lolipop-Franks" and so on.

BTW your point on the causes of the recession are well-taken. Know this: politicians are politicians. They are not technologists, they are not mostly economists - they are 99% lawyers, and all they really do is move money around.

I too wish you a Merry Christmas - and a happy holiday. This brand of rhetoric whereby people attempt to shoebox everyone into things like "Dhimmcrats" (?), is not helpful, and I think you can understand your dismay better by some clear-headed thinking. I think you are on the way, but you must rise above the temptation to demonize people - and resist constructing an alternate reality. The best analysts are always objective and this habit of constructing a parallel reality has not served America well.

Let's hold at least ourselves to a higher standard, as well as our analytical skills. You can't paint in such broad strokes and expect precise change. You may speak loudly and condemn, but don't expect people to listen for long. There's a reason we alay such effect to judges.

Let's end the recession - let's get more people working - let's lead the world to a better way with compassion and intelligence.

Good communication requires a certain aesthetic in order to be successful. One cannot hope to achieve this with a pantheon of fairy-tales . That goes for Vikr as well.

We are living in the year 2008. 2009 is going to be a tough one, but think of the billion people in the world who will see no happiness at all.

  on  12/25/08  at  02:06 PM    #144

Very well said, Khal, especially that last line about the billonish with nothing but despair this Christmas Day, and fully knowing how fortunate I am and you are as I sit if front of a 22 inch screen monitor and eat my soup as I reply to you.  Here is what bothers me, and I find it very sad, and I do not think it can be fixed.  When America went into Iraq (and I am aware of the argument that it should have been Afghanistan, it was for oil, GW Bush finishing the unfinished work of GH Bush, all of those theories that have been bandied about), the mainstream American feeling, even including Islamics here in the US, was this: "those people have fought against each other for thousands of years, they will never get along, this is hopeless, SADDAM WAS THE BEST THING FOR THEM, THEY MUST HAVE A DICTATOR, THINGS WERE SO MUCH BETTER UNDER SADDAM, THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST HOPELESS.....And so, we will soon leave, and then we will know if all this was in vain. 

I watch, ok, the Democrats, paint GW Bush as a stupid man, everything is his fault, they say, and they want change, and all that really means is that they want to be in control, to promote their tax and spend agenda, to pander to all minorities so as to get them to vote for them (yes, right here it is, Barney Franks, Maxine Waters, CRA or the Community Reinvestment Act, from your remarks I suspect you know that this was started by Jimmy Carter, made worse by Bill Clinton, and none other than Barack Obama is into this Acorn business that contributed to Freddie/Fannie, and the getting out the vote for Mickey Mouse, dead people....but the American People somehow just do not see this, they vote in droves for the very people who caused all this.....pitiful...and we do know, do we not, who the lawyer party is, the Democratic party, not the hated GW Bush, Cheneys, these are business men, but you do know that Bill Clinton, .... all the lawyers of the one and the same party, the Democratic/Lawyer party...). 

  on  12/25/08  at  02:08 PM    #145

Then I look at GW Bush, and what I see is a man who knows all this hatred, acrimony, for him, and does he try to win a popularity contest?  No, he follows his convictions, and I suspect that he understands the existential threat of Radical Islam very well.  I do not think the Democrats do, I think they look at the economy as just one big, fixed pie, and they tell everyone to vote for them and they will get handouts. So, in this vein comes Freddie/Fannie/Frank Raines...all the protectionism of these corrupt scoundrels, yes, indeed I am angry with Gregory Meeks, all of them, mad enough to throw them thru the nearest window, ....but, yes, I do remember well I told you about the rational self as opposed to the emotional self, but if I see anyone waste the money of the taxpayer, I will become very very angry at them, and I try to shine the brightest floodlamp I can find on them.  The Democrats think that they will just cut this big fixed pie differently, giving minorities, and, yes, they have their sights fixed on illegal immigrants, just give them more of this fixed pie.  But what they fail to realize is that this pie is not fixed in size, and as a matter of fact, this pie is now drastically smaller that it was as recently as October 2007, thanks to Frank Raines/Bill Clinton/Maxine Waters/Gregory Meeks, ....and I fear, Barack Obama.  And then I ask myself, just how is it that the Amerian People went out in droves November 4th and voted for the very people who have destroyed the not only American, but the global economy?  Is this not ludricous?? 

I am not happy about my country being destroyed by corrupt people, but the very worst part of this is that the American People have become so lazy and indolent that they perhaps have the awareness and mental acumen of a sixth grader, just tell them anything, and they will vote for it.  You said you were aware of who really caused Freddie/Fannie, but apparently you are in a tiny minority.  The election was not close, it was a forgone conclusion, no suspense at all.  And then, maybe you have heard the Talking Heads speak of how the election was decided by the "October Surprise," which was Freddie/Fannie.  But here is the fundamental problem, the Democrats cause this, and the American People reward them with this election.  They even voted for John Murtha in Pennsylvania?  This man is a disgrace to his uniform and his nation, and they vote for this?  And Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid??? I feel that we are finished as a world power, this is utter rot and corruption, the abandoning of basic principles and moral bankrupcy, time to pass the baton to China and India.  A nation void of fundamental principles and integrity simply is not sustainable.  So yes, the Dhimmicratic party and Barney My Boy Lollipop Franks stuff, I am very angry with these people and I am angry at the American People for voting for this stuff.

  on  12/25/08  at  02:11 PM    #146

The single thing of the Democratic agenda that I agree with is to tax the rich more, Oprah Winfrey makes what, $90 million a year, how many Mercedes can she drive at one time, the major league baseball players, the movie stars that get paid millions for looking pretty and doing whatever the film director tells them, by all means, tax the snot out of these people. And the CEO salaries, a disgrace, and just another facet of failing to follow basic financial principles, the shiny red apple with a rotten core.

And so I look at the Islamic world, and the saddest thing of all is how generous and good the American People are, and how we have given billions and billions to help the Palistineans, and it is hopeless, we have given billions of dollars to people who hate us, are totally under the thumb of hopelessly evil Iran.  The notion that we really would do what we could to improve their lot, except that their religion precludes this.  And so the biggest Inconvenient Truth of all, Islam is the BoogeyMan, I fear, it must be abolished, it is not at all a religion of peace, no matter how badly we would like it to be.  Islam is what it is, not what we hope it is, not what we think it should be, and that reality is pure evil.  Thus the hopelessness of Palistine, the Islamic people, especially the women, they are the victims of their religion, and I do not think the American People see this, actually if they do not understand Freddie/Fannie, they can never hope to understand this.

And Kahl, think back a couple of years ago, and it was strongly thought that the US would take out Iran's nuclear capabilities, and GW Bush was very adamant about the military option not being taken off the table.  Now watch part two of Dennis Miller's Top Ten Pinheads of 2008 at  http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3333876&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469746,00.html

  on  12/25/08  at  02:14 PM    #147

Number 4 is quite disturbing with Rev. Wright, Governor Rod Blagovich, ....and the reference to Barack Obama being the common link between these very bad people, but I call your attention to number 1: Harry Reid, the "Dimmest bulb on the strip."  The man simply does not belong in Government, nor does Nancy Pelosi.  But recall Harry Reid sponsors this study that says "Iran has abandoned its nuclear program," and just like that, GW Bush has no grounds to address the Iranian menace.  And does ANYONE really believe that Iran is not pursuing nuclear weapons?  You do know that one day, the Bearded Buzzard of Tehran (not name calling, I am not discussing a point with him) will abandon the talk of how the program is peaceful, and replace it with "Allah has willed that Iran have nuclear weapons so (fill in the blank, our enemies, the Great Satan, the Zionists, whatever.....).  You do know this, do you not?  And now put yourself in the position of the Israelites, who have been thru the Holocaust, and so know evil up close and personal, have heard the Bearded Buzzard deny that it even happened, have heard the threats, understand the hopeless evil of Islam very well from up close, know that Barack Obama takes office January 20th, do not know if he can be trusted or not, no way to know this, and so as we hurtle through the final days of 2008, do you understand what may possibly happen in a few days, do you comphrehend this??  The Cassandra thing, let's hope that was just mystical stuff, no basis for it in reality.  Once again, that one word, the only thing that is left, hope.

So, in closing, I think GW Bush really has tried to help the Middle Eastern world, but is hated for their woes, as they cannot look inwards and see that it is their religion, Islam, which is a doctrine, theology, and legal system which mandates perpetual warfare against the UnBeliever, all subsumed in Jihad, and then al Taqiyya applied to pretend that Jihad is just a personal struggle to improve oneself, when this is simply not so. 

  on  12/25/08  at  02:17 PM    #148

No other major religion in the world says "Convert or Die, or become Dhimmis."  As Serge Trifkovic said in "The Sword of the Prophet,"

***”Discrimination against non co-religionists and women, racism, slavery, anti-semitism, and cultural imperialism can be found, individually or in various combinations, in other cultures and eras.  Islam alone has them all at once, all the time, and divinely sanctioned at that.”  The shoe throwers, and that is the very best behavior possible for them, they have consistently behaved in much more evil ways, they fail to see that he has given them perhaps their very final chance to be free people, but I do not see this happening, not in Islam. Serge Trifkovic says Iraq will be ruled by the Mullahs of Shite Islam, and even worse, that if there ever is democracy in Islam, it will not be what GW Bush had hoped for, it will be Iraq, Turkey, ... morphing into Islamic Republics, in the Image of the Islamic Republic of Evil bestowed upon the world by Jimmy Carter in 1979.  If Mr. Trifkovic is correct in his assessments, be afraid, very afraid indeed.

"Islamics fully understand that the Liberal Mindset is their most powerful secret weapon, while at the same time despising it."  Serge Trifkovic, "The Sword of the Prophet"

"Tolerance of Intolerance is not Tolerance," Mark Steyn, "America Alone"

  on  01/29/09  at  02:40 AM    #149

Didn't know about this site until I came upon it by chance. Some extraordinary postings. Very interesting to see how islam is being challenged here in a way that's just not permitted in most (all?) muslim or largely muslim countries like Qatar, the UAE and, especially, like Saudi Arabia where I lived and worked for 12 years. What impressions did I gain of islam during that time? A time when the Twin Towers were attacked, when the "Prophet Cartoons" row was at its height and when even KSA was experiencing some pretty horrific islamic terrorist incidents, mostly against westerners? My impression of islam throughout this whole period became ever more critical. It wasn't just the awful breaches of human rights (the right to freedom of religion, for instance) that some of these places - islamic States - purport to uphold but don't; nor merely the often dreadful treatment of domestic servants (Phillipino; Bangladeshi; Nepalese; Sri-Lankan; and so on) lured to the Gulf by the false promise of wealth to be gained and then all but made prisoner/slaves/compulsory concubines of by muslim arab families. It was all of that, plus islam's complete incapacity to examine itself and its bloody track record with anything like candour. Instead, muslims - and those living among them - seem compelled to view that bizarre faith with a sort of extreme narcissism linked to a sort of cult worship of islam's otherwise bellicose, deceitful and contradictory founder: Mohammed. This is intolerable. "Understandable", in a sense, knowing the violence any departure from this self-intoxicating hero-worship invites; but intolerable nontheless. Islam simply doesn't measure up to the claims it makes for itself, I came to conclude. Which, after centuries of trying, is a pretty sizeable muslim failing for something described as "perfect" and "noble". And given that Al'Lah may be the derivative of an ancient pagan Moon-God which had nothing to do with the Abrahamic God of the Jews and the Christians; and that the Ka'aba may be the original site of that pagan deity's shrine; and that there may indeed have been several alternative renderings of the Qur'an prior to the current, received one; and that the original language may have been closer to Aramaic than to the arabic it's presently couched in (and so original meanings may be different to contemporary ones); and given that the Qur'an appears, anyway, to be a compendium of contradictions and plagiarisms which are often as baffling as they are incoherent - and certainly not particularly "peaceful and tolerant" (often very violent, in fact) - there's much about this whole creed from top to bottom - from alleged prophet to alleged paradise and 72 virgins; from sharia to shaheed; from killing "unbelievers" to the customary condescending and demeaning - not to say insulting - definitions of those others as what they are not ("un"-believers, "non"-muslims) - that could and should be sternly interrogated. But.........this is forbidden. What kind of "religion", though, is it that seems so frightened rigid of others' intelligent and well informed doubt or investigations? Not one that I can admire even though I've much personal regard for many muslims I've met over the years.

Islam, as far as I'm concerned, is a dead duck. At least as a persuasive so called "faith". It's risibly unconvincing to the objective and informed mind. It's far from corpse like though as a threat. Where it can't persuade and win arguments on open, fair and equal terms - which it can't - it resorts to its traditional tactic of deception, more than a hint of violence, and actual brutality. Brutality against its self-appointed enemies (ie all of us) and brutality against its perceived rivals: Shi'ia - Sunni; Muslim majority - Christian or Jewish minority, or anyone else.

We can't tolerate this. It has to be fought. It's a battle we don't wish for but one that's been forced on us. So there's no choice. So we must get on with it. Step one is to see it for what it really is. A religion of "peace and tolerance"? That, if islam had a sense of humour, would be the biggest laugh of all.

  on  01/29/09  at  05:43 PM    #150

Sebastian, thanks very much for this great post.

  on  01/29/09  at  05:55 PM    #151

So Sebastian if I'm getting this straight - you suggest "war". If you mean intellectually, you should probably state that. 

Fighting against war; I'm for it, by the way. I.E. pro-peace.

However, it really seems you are advocating war, and the status quo, and that's a dead duck too.

Good luck with that.

Lame, Vik. Lame.

  on  01/29/09  at  09:18 PM    #152

To Khal - your "straightness" or otherwise is a matter for you. I don't mind one way or another if you get things "straight" or not. The facts about islam - or at least, the facts as we can approximate them - are pretty plain to see for those prepared to look candidly. Unfortunately, that category of candid lookers excludes most muslims, as far as I can tell. May I respectfully point out the irony of someone of your views - fairly pro muslim - who expresses all this from (presumably, but you'll correct me if wrong) the USA and not a muslim state. As we all know, muslim states are tolerant of dissent, provided it's not against themselves and their institutional creed. How far do you think you'd get, though, if you were a Jewish, Christian or Hindu blogger in, say, Shi'ia Iran or largely Sunni Pakistan and expressing pro Jewish, Christian or pro Hindu views in similar fashion to your pro-muslim sentiments here? You should be more appreciative of the freedoms Judeo-Christian America affords you (if indeed that's where you are) and you should encourage muslims you may know to value the States in the same courteous and considerate manner. As for "war talk", I think any intelligent person will understand the meaning of it. Someone with half a brain and a reasonable outlook will appreciate that "war" doesn't automatically connote sudden and widespread violence. You should learn that Khal. It means many other things too - not least the "battle" for truth and just ideas. The necessity of wrestling with a cult that seeks to impose its totalitarian dispositions and medieval instincts onto all of us fortunate enough to live in the Dar Al Harb. The exposure of some pretty gigantic, flattering misconceptions or calculated distortions islam would foist upon us: its absurd account of Christ's crucifixion and resurrection being one; its claim to "perfection" being another; and one more being its grossy deformed but "institutional" view of other faiths.

Slogans and semantic straw-chopping get you nowhere. It may, though, be the best muslims can do.

  on  01/29/09  at  09:31 PM    #153

To Khan - I've just noticed the Canadian flag against your name - so perhaps you're there rather than in the US. However, my comments about the fortunes of your position in N America and the freedoms you enjoy, are valid. Canada is a superb country to which many muslims flock given the chance. As they do to the States. I apologise however, for confusing what may be your nationality.

  on  01/29/09  at  09:47 PM    #154

Here's the point.

Sitting around, pointing out what is wrong with Islam and why you should fight it is an obfuscation of the truth.

Here's why. All these wars going on are _not_ about religion. You don't see rabbis, priests and mullahs taking arms against each other very often do you?

No.

Northern Ireland, Palestian, in the modern incarnations, are about land and land ownership issues and people fighting over real estate.

Taking pot-shots at Islam as a reason to fight it, or for that matter Judaism, is a mask for underlying legal or illegal issues regarding land ownership.

Your argument, indeed an ad hominem attack, only promotes more hatred, and it excuses larger crimes.

Oh yes, people on this site can't wait to find out my background, but you never will. I was raised Christian - surprise - I have have semitic blood (you better look it up) and half angle-saxon. So you see - I am literally unpinnable.

You'll never really find out , because I am modern, and I live in Canada. I hate war, and I am pro-peace and law, and not any one religion.

Bringing an examination of Islam as a reason to fight it, I see as a disgusting act of cowardice and more of the same. It's not me who needs to examine my motives , it's you.

I am pretty disgusted by the goings on in the Middle East in the last little while, but at least we finally get a reprieve from the nonsense.

Maybe it will last - as someone recently said, this is the right said of history - mine - advocating building things and not tearing them down.

  on  01/30/09  at  04:11 AM    #155

In a hurry so cannot say much, but Islam is not what you think it should be, it is what it is as defined by  the Quran, it is not what you think it should be.  The stonings to death, the horrible history in India, Smyrna Antolia, Sudan, Morrocco, East Timor, just horrible, demonic, it is Lucifer, it cannot coexist with other religions, it is a fanatical evil thing, it is not even a religion, it is a demonic calling.  Those who call the evil ones "Fundamentalists" are saying they do what the Quran says, and they are correct, the Quran is the book of Satan, it is evil, the ninth sura is not like the ninth symphony of Beethoven, it is not "All men become brothers beneath the sway of thy gentle wings," it is "Slay the Unbeliever wherever you find him." Demonic evil. Sura 9 is the chapter of war and it is chronologically the final chapter and so it has the most meaning.

We elect fools like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton who throw billions at this mess and money will not solve this, we must destroy the evil thirtish percent, or there will be more lying and slaughter in the name of Allah. And we just elected another fool, Obama, more billions and lying and nothing but slaughter and demands from Islam.  Better be glad I do not call the shots or there would be no more Islam, I meet lying and evil by totally destroyiny it. And do not be surprised when Israel blows us off, they have seen evil up close and personal, so do not be surprised by what happens between Israel and Islam. This is the final battle and America has become the stupid giant thanks to Dhimmicrats and the Fools they elect. Corrupt fools, five bailouts and with each one, the stock market goes lower, as the smart people who invest see what is coming and that is the second term  of Jimmy Carter, utter failure, Decline, a stupid people voting for stupid corrupt politicians. Send all of the Dhimmicrats to GITMO, they who are releasing murdurers, 61 of who have been released from GITMO and found dead on the battlefield, and they no doubt have killed our guys before getting themselves killed.  And how about the ones we do not know about that have not been killed.  Know you well Dhimmicrats that if I ever have a say that you will pay for this, you are proxy murdurers by your stupid selves letting these murdurers go, you soft touches you, and you Obama, the biggest fool of them all trying to cozy up to these murdurers, you are going to be a very useful fool for Islam just like Carter and Clinton, you stupid proxy murdurers.  Gotta go.

  on  01/31/09  at  07:58 AM    #156

With respect to der allewisser, one wouldn't want to get too deeply into whether or not islam is devil's work or not. Depends how this is defined. What is easier to countenance is islam's stubborn refusal to accept either fault or error. This is silly and juvenile. Committed to the absurd belief that it, contrary to evidence, is "perfect", it is intrinsically - and immaturely - incapable of faulting itself. It's wilfully blind to its own many defects and brutal to those who do it the favour of exposing those self-denied shortcomings: and there are many shortcomings. Some may describe this reluctance to take blame, this aversion to remorse and honest contrition, this avoidance of critical self-examination, as "sin". Perhaps it is. Perhaps islam's utter and intransigent self-righteous conceit is "wicked": a departure from the truth about itself. So be it. As for myself, I merely think it foolish.

Let us be reminded though that Satan - if you believe in this, as muslims do (Shaitan) - is cunning. Fiendishly capable of tainting the good with the bad. Mixing one with another. Do not therefore condemn all muslims because of what they were born as and brought up with. There's much "good" in many muslims. It merely needs to be brought out.... fearlessly. They are not all bad news. Islam itself, though, is another story. Its "evil" is that it thinks itself perfect. Not even Christ claimed that. It's islam's self-appointed and "sinful" claim to perfection that we have a duty to correct. Muslims will be much the better for it if we do. "The truth will set you free". Compared to that, the Clintons, the Bushes, the Obamas, the Michael Jacksons (and liasions with the Bahraini ruling Sunni family) are as the crackling of thorns beneath the pot.

  on  01/31/09  at  12:35 PM    #157

All very good Sebastian.  It is, of course, above my paygrade to say for sure that Islam is in fact a relevation by Lucifer, that supposed ride thru the night that Muhammod had, was it indeed by Satan, or was it simply the ravings of a mad man?  I have heard of people "Finding God," but is this more like "Finding Satan?"  Difficult to say, but it is certainly evil. And the acts of Islamics, horribly and consistently evil.

The reason I suspect Satan is that Islam has survived at all, indeed it is the world's largest and fastest - growing religion (and this portends something truely horrible).  Yes, there are many good Islamics, and many of them are here in the US, and if you talk to them, you will learn of their despair and that they have fled their countries b/c of the hoplessly evil nature of Islam and Sharia law.  They are the 70ish percent majority who are oppressed by the evil but determined and fanatical minority.  This is why I think the rest of us, all the Unbelievers, the greatest thing for mankind, and indeed the only right thing to do, is to confront Islam and DEMAND change within the religion, and to shut down all mosques until these demands are met.  To continue  our current course is lunacy, and the evil will just get worse and worse until this evil, the pith of it is the Quran, is addressed.  Will what happens to Europe prompt this?

  on  01/31/09  at  12:37 PM    #158

Or will the Europeans, in the spirit of Geert Wilders of the Netherlands (their Patrick Henry), realize their peril and take action?  Fourteen centuries of aggression and crimes against humanity, and we elect BHO, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and all the Blagos and the other corrupt inept Dhimmicrats. It just does not look good. Releasing GITMO murderers, giving them the full rights of an American citizen, filling the pockets of Dhimmicratic Lawyers (I have not checked but am sure this is so, wasting the money of American taxpayers by throwing it at useless lawyers, like that 20th hijacker wasteful thing, and the Blind Shiek and the other terrorists in the first WTC attack, Clinton and his idiots, many of whom are now back, it just looks so bad.). The BHO version of Clinton's gift to the lawyers of the stealing from tobacco companies and the American People.  These released GITMOs have been found dead on the battlefield, 61 of them so far (Sean Hannity, Serge Trifkovic), and there are  others who, no doubt, have also gone back to terrorism, and have killed, and have not been killed or found out.  The Dhimmicrats, Proxy Murdurers.

  on  01/31/09  at  12:52 PM    #159

Khal, Khal, it IS WAR, AGAINST US, BUT WE ARE TOO STUPID TO SEE IT!  Fight back or perish.

  on  01/31/09  at  01:11 PM    #160

And one more thing Khan, it IS about religion, b/c Islam, as such as defined by the Quran, is pure demonic evil.  Horrible.  Indeed they are told by the Quran that these crimes against humanity will bring them rewards by Allah in the current life and in the eternity of the afterlife.  This final war is a RELIGIOUS war.  I have submitted this before elsewhere, but now seems a good time to review Great Thinkers on Islam:

Islam will kill Europe in its sleep. -- Frank Roman, BOD, EAU

DR M. SABIESKI (PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY) “The militant Muslim is the person cutting the head of the infidel while the moderate Muslim holds the victims feet”.

MARCO POLO (WORLD TRAVELER) “The law which their prophet Mohamed has given to muslims is that any harm done to any one who does not accept their law and any appropriation of his goods, is no sin at all.”

JOHN QUINCY ADAMS (U.S. PRESIDENT) ”The essence of mohammed’s doctrine was violence and lust: to exalt the brutal over the spiritual part of human nature.

PROF BERTRAND RUSSELL (PHILOSOPHER) “Over a billion people believe in Allah without truly knowing what Allah supposedly stands for or what he really demands of them. And the minority that do understand continue to be Moslems because they have redefined their morality and ethics to fit within the teachings of Islam, which are floridly lacking in morality. They therefore redefine what is good and evil in order to fit their lives into what is preached by Islam, instead of examining Islam to see if it fits within the good life. Backwards thinking, imposed by a backward religion”.

SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL (BRITISH PRIME MINISTER)"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.”

ALEXIS DE TOCQVILLE (FRENCH THINKER/HISTORIAN) “I studied the Kuran a great deal … I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammed.” EARNEST RENAN (FRENCH THINKER) “Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of this religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him.”

EARNEST RENAN (FRENCH THINKER) Tide In: 1823, Tide Out: 1892

  on  01/31/09  at  01:15 PM    #161

WILL DURANT (U.S. HISTORIAN) “The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within.” KOENRAAD ELST (BELGIAN HISTORIAN)“The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. As a contribution to research on the quantity of the Islamic crimes against humanity, we may mention that the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate).” POPE BENEDICT/BYZANTINE EMPEROR PALEOGUS "Show me just what Prophet Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.” BRIGITTE GABRIEL (WRITER) “Islamic societies are suffocated by shackles around the human spirit and brain. Islamic theology is driven by machoism, dominance, intolerance, submission and violence to all that disagrees with Islam’s principles of law”: DR. KHUSHWANT SINGH (PROFESSOR) “The most successful lecherous man who used religion for his personal gain is Prophet Mohammed. Islam is a cult with it’s complete irrational belief in Allah created by Muhammed who was a liar, thief, murderer and rapist till his last breath”. Dr. R. BRAHAMCHARI (PHYSICIST) ”Allah is a cruel tyrant, a barbaric killer and a violent despot . Islamic Umma is the biggest criminal gang on earth and Allah is leader and guide of that criminal gang and is trying to establish himself as the God of the world (not of the universe) with the help of the mujahidin through terror and bloodshed”. Dr. BR AMBEDKAR ( THE FATHER OF INDIAN CONSTITUTION) “Islam is a false and dangerous way of living.”

  on  01/31/09  at  02:07 PM    #162

War nothing. Who invaded whom _lately_ ?

 Bunch of poop on this site, I tell ya.

Keep it up - keep up the ranting - maybe you'll go hoarse.

  on  01/31/09  at  07:43 PM    #163

Allow me to dismiss khaleroo's crude outbust, and return instead to der allewisser's much more sensible and pertinent remarks. There's much in what you post. It's neither "insensitive" nor "racist" (both much overused terms) to voice these severe doubts about the world's most compelling - and deceptive - cult. What's heartening is to see how critical comment seems to be growing and spreading. This isn't yet reflected much at the political level because politicians - and the conventional media - are often so fearful of the militant consequences (ref the Mohammed Cartoons in Denmark; ref threats against the Pope for his otherwise mild but accurate reflections; and ref those against Geert Wilders for his more forthright opinions) that they shut nervously up. The British BBC is a classic instance of deferential - often quite cowardly, in my view - reportage and commentary on matters islamic. There's also political anxiety about the potential loss of seats in areas where the muslim vote is crucial. All that said, there's an undercurrent of deeping sceptimism in Europe, about islam and the cordon sanataire it's drawn around itself: its unwillingness to be openly debated and its demands for preferential treatment based on "rights" and so called religious requirements. Whenever I come across Dutch, Germans, Brits, French.................... and the topic turns to islam in Europe, there's smouldering anger. A colleague of mine recently returning from leave in his parent Italy, told me of the much resented muslim influence there. The average Italian is silently incandescent about how islam is permitted to construct mosques and madrassas almost unchallenged. And muslims are not shy to state their ambition to reoccupy Andalusia (Spain) - by stealth if necessary. But where are the churches and synagogues in, say, KSA where much of the blight of wahhabist teaching originates and is funded from? Where's the reciprocity from the "religion of peace" (which, of course it is not)? These are serious, popular European concerns. At some point, I believe they will come much more to the obvious foreground. The reason they haven't so far, has much to do with a sort of perverted, hand-wringing liberal media preoccupation with political correctness and "equality" than with the lack of an honest case against this belligerent and selfish, dishonest creed. This will have to change.

In the meantime, I suppose we'll all just have to keep blogging. But let me end this one with a point about islam being the world's fastest growing religion. I'm not sure where the statistics come from but............islam pays people to convert. During my sojourns in Ethiopia I was told of the Ethiopian Coptic Church's anxiety about how islam offered what amounted to "bribes" for people to sign up. Many did - but just for the money. Ethiopia is a poor country. These are false conversions, but crude stats won't show that. I guess this is happening across the developing world where oil/gas dollars can be scattered around. Moreover, muslims have large families. There, too, is another growth rate. So I'd be wary of this claim. Moreover, I know from experience that the fastest growing religion in one of the world's most populous countries - China - is Christianity. That and a revival of their traditional forms of Bhuddism or something similar. The Chinese Government, much to its credit, is more tolerant of religion than is often thought. But they'd stop absolutely short of hosting the jihadism that's intrinsic to islam. Jihadism would be halted in its tracks before it even started. No messing around at all. There's an awareness of islam as a political manifesto with a political agenda; one that's generally separatist. That won't be entertained. The Chinese are absolutely correct in this. So it's not all bad news.

And as I said, though - keep blogging. 

  on  02/01/09  at  06:29 AM    #164

Indeed, Khaleroo seems to not know who flew airliners with women and children and men, all innocent, into buildings filled with more innocents, all a sacrifice to Lucifer in the name of demonic evil.  That alone would not be dooming, but what is dooming is the delight of the Muslim world b/c of it.  Osama is seen as a hero in that world, and that he is the bellwether of Islam is proof of the evil nature of this religion. Not all of them mind you, as Earnest Renan said 150 years ago, Muslims are the first victims of Islam, and the greatest thing you can do for them is to free them from these schakles.  And he apparently is not aware of the horrors of the Armenians from 1915 - 1923 thanks to the Ottoman Turks, and what happened to Smyrna, Anatolia in 1922, nor that the population of the Indian subcontinent decreased by 80,000,000 between 1000 and 1525, thanks to the Islamic cockroaches from hell that came to the Hindus. Wonder, just wonderful, and we think there is no Satan?  And what about the Zoastrians and the other Christians who were the inhabitants of Persia and elsewhere in Middle East that these Islamic cockroaches invaded, slaughtered, raped, built horrible mosque after mosque as they spread their evil throughout the Middle East, and indeed, Spain.  They were stopped at the gates of Vienna on September 11th, 1683.  That's right, September 11th.  Leapold Mozart was born in Vienna early in the next century, Ludwig van Beethoven was born in Bonn in 1770, and has the Islamic evil prevailed, these people would have never existed.

Oh Khaleroo, thanks to Islam for all your Beethovens, Mozarts, Nikola Teslas, Benjamin Franklins, Nickoli Copernicus's, Karl Fredrich Gauss's, Thomas Alva Edisons, Isaac Newtons, Louis Amperes, William Shakespheres, CHristopher Huygenss,....thanks, just thanks so much.  Guess who invented the Internet? No, it was not Al Gore, it was what was known as the DARPANET, or Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency NET of the US Military, and so your terrorists who just love this come from a civilazation that could never produce a light bulb, much less this.  ANd don't come back with stuff like the Rubiyat, I know Islam has done nothing but evil since the 11th century.  Don't waste your breath or energy.

  on  02/01/09  at  06:32 AM    #165

I know America has been over taken by Indolence, Ignorance, submitting to the Liberal Mindset, but do not think we are all clueless surrender monkey letting murdurers go from GITMO stupid Dhimmicrat types.  There are 57,000.000 of us who voted Republican, even though McCain was damaged and far from the best Republican available.  There are those of us who understand what CAIR, MAB, all the Fifth Column Islamics that are here are.  If there is anything left after Obama and the Dhimmicrats bring socialism and appeasment and being the Useful Fool for Islam, you may yet have to deal with us.  A lot more than being hoarse.  And soon you will have to deal with Israel.  They, like the Zoarastians, were invaded by Islamic cockroaches, and the Palistineans are nothing more than invaders, uninvited evil.  Don't tell me about Palistineans being killed in Gaza, they voted for Hamas and Hamas is Iran and its charter is to destroy Israel. Don't waste your energy, they voted for evil and they shower rockets into Israel by the thousands. 

Israel understands what has happened to America, and that they are on their own, for now.  What you may not understand is that the Middle East is on a precipice b/c of this, Israel has to fight for its survival, as there is no America to stand behind them now, so the situation is extremely volitile, and every morning I get up I check to see if the clash between Israel and DemonicStan (Iran) has happened yet.  Face it, you are either one of the seventish percent of silent Muslims, out of fear or tacit support, waiting to see which side wins, or you are Satan's people, the horribly evil Sharia suicide killers, fanatics, the most horrible people who ever walked the Earth.

  on  02/01/09  at  06:34 AM    #166

Far worse than Hitler and those, just a few bad people who ruled many with their hatred of the Jews.  Your evil is your book, your religion, this is far worse and it will be a battle to the death, in the near term between Israel and Islam,  Good vs. Evil; in the not so near term, between Europe and Islam, and in the long term, between the West and Islam. 

If you win, Darkness Falls. Sebastian may have something about the growing awareness of the evil of this religion.  It may be that with the Internet, email, youtube, and all the other emerging technologies that this evil could be brought into the spotlight.  But it is indeed scary how stupid and indolent the American People are as withnessed by the events of November 4th, 2008.  The appalling stupidity of Liberals and the Dhimmicrats, Obama trying to cozy up with this snake, these evil Islamics in Tehran, clueless, and the idiots who voted for this shallow empty suit, all the lofty rhetoric, airy platitudes, a triumph of style over substance.  All we who know the truth can do is to spread the word.

"Islamics know their most powerful secret weapon is the Liberal Mindset, while despising it at the same time."  Serge Trifkovic, The Sword of the Prophet

"Tolerance of Intolerance is not Tolerance."  Mark Steyn, America ALone

  on  02/01/09  at  07:33 AM    #167

The most insidious form of dhimmitude, may I suggest, is the creeping dhimmitude of expression. The gradual, cumulative restrictions placed upon free speech in matters islamic. The piecemeal prohibitions on anything said about islam that's deemed "insulting". The metaphorical, deferential stepping aside off the pavement (sidewalk) the moment a muslim or a muslim organisation protests: demanding the primary right of way for its views but a secondary place in the gutter for its critics'. Such, we cannot allow. We can't permit honest and responsible free speech to be shouldered aside by bullying and haughty islamofascism that appropriates like this, the common highway of public discourse. This is why blogs are so important. They're assertions of the right to speak out.

der alleswisser's reference to light-bulbs is interesting. Light-bulbs (along with much else) are cultural artifacts. They are the expressions of a certain technology that's grown from a certain way of looking at things and of doing things. There's not one muslim state that I can think of capable of researching, designing, constructing a prototype, mass-producing, distributing at a competitive price and then progressively improving upon a single light bulb. Or a camera; or a hypodermic syringe; a washing machine; a lawn mower; an agricultural sprinkler system; or a strain of dry conditions tolerant cereal. In other words, but for what they can shop for or imitate, they're stuck in a rut. Their educational systems are narrow and limiting; they read few books; "critical thinking" is a mere sound-bite; their "islamic" science is largely an affectation and their social outlooks are sectarian or tribal. And these people want to take over the world? To demand our docile "respect". We must be stark-staring mad to tolerate this nonsense, let alone to defer to it, for an instant.

  on  02/01/09  at  09:43 AM    #168

Islam contributed a lot of science to the world. Study is actually one of the

tenets of their belief system, not ignorance.

You can't just paint everyone with the same brush. That's called racism.

The people who flew the planes into the trade center were

Saudi nationals with a billionaire patron - something which no one talks about, because I

It's amazing how much hate you've got on - propaganda pure and simple.

In fact - it would be amazing to me if you actually broke down the countries

into extremist and non-extremist - because that's not the point you're

trying to make.

No one is making excuses for criminals who happen to be muslim - it's a little like taking all mafia members to task for their Catholicism. Criminals are criminals no matter what their faith, and I suppose people on this site have a purpose to stoke the flames - really nice - good luck with that - the times are changing.

  on  02/01/09  at  10:35 AM    #169

And by the way, I put forth to you it is entirely acceptable to be pro-peace, pro-Israeli security, pro-harmony, and pro-tolerance.

That is the only way forward. I'm not sure exactly what is to be gained

by screaming "fight them" over and over again, except more of the same

nonsense that's been going on for 100s of years.

It's possible to have peace in the middle-east and not bother with arguing religion - that doesn't get you far.

I had a school of all faiths , and a substantial Jewish population in Winnipeg.

In Toronto, I worked with an Israeli company. There's little point in pointing out the shortcomings of the past in any religion, and that's what I see happening on this site with regards to Islam.

We all need to work together. If a Muslim person extends a hand to you and asks for harmony, you must give them the benefit of the doubt, just as you would any religion.

I am kind of shocked by the level of ignorance about the Muslim world on display on this site.

I have been to Bangladesh - it's a Muslum country, by in large. It's filled with many poor people, but also many good Universities, doctors, lawyers and scientists, all strokes of people. A recent Bengali won the Nobel peace prize for creating 'micro-loans.' That's just one example - they're just people.

Now if you really want to debate future world options, please do, but what I am seeing is a lot of hysteria on this site - please calm down and think about what you're advocating. War and hate. That's sickening and you're going to get nowhere with it.

  on  02/01/09  at  11:05 AM    #170

khaleroo,

And by the way, I put forth to you it is entirely acceptable to be pro-peace, pro-Israeli security, pro-harmony, and pro-tolerance. That is the only way forward.

Have you made this point to Islamists who preach hatred, and if so, on what sites?

All these wars going on are _not_ about religion. You don’t see rabbis, priests and mullahs taking arms against each other very often do you?

No.

Northern Ireland, Palestian, in the modern incarnations, are about land and land ownership issues and people fighting over real estate.

Islamists who wage war frequently claim that the war is about land rather than religion. However, this appears to be a misconception. In the majority of wars in the world today, one of the sides fighting is Islamic. There are conflicts between Muslims and non-Muslims in Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Chechnya, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Nigeria.

  on  02/01/09  at  01:08 PM    #171

My point isn't that these wars do not exist. My point is that

for people suceptible to it, this site is a free-for-all and

engenders hatred - literally encouraging all variety of damnation and excuses for waging war, and then Vik, you turn around and agree with it.

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. As someone else pointed out before, maybe a year or so ago, I've taken a pro-peace position and I am sticking to it.

I once taught a class of Saudi computer scientists. They prayed, they were pretty normal; they had a very low opinion of Bin Laden. They thought he was stupid.

Let's remember what Bin Laden wanted: America out of Saudi. That's contrary to modern Saudi Arabia, who is also a business partner to the west.

I don't need to go and post on foreign web sites to make my opinion known; it's the opinion of majority: people want peace.

I can tell you one thing though, Muslims would not take a very kind view of a web site that has pages and pages of criticism of a religion and it's people with a historical lens.

Every religion, and now every nation has its closet of abominations, and these evil acts must be fought against, all of them.

So I'm sticking to it, I am sticking with the gameplan. If I come across a site, I might post a reply, but do I really want to get embroiled in a discussion about Israel and Palestine?

Remember, a mediator has to not take sides, and must make dialogue constructive. I am not seeing a lot of that here, sorry Vik.

  on  02/01/09  at  01:36 PM    #172

Khal, do you agree that a Muslim who blows up a public place, such as a train, plane, bus, or restaurant, in the name of Islam, is not rewarded for it by being sent to paradise?

  on  02/01/09  at  06:37 PM    #173

I don't think anyone's pointing out a religion's past shortcomings merely for the sake of dwelling on them. I do think people are highlighting islam's current ones though. And since islam is eager to advertise - press upon us - its "perfections", we are entitled to examine these claims, as we do. And we find them seriously wanting. As for "land" rather than "religion" being the issue, that's correct only in a sense. Did you not know that "land" in the Middle East is a religious concept too? "Waqf". The alleged prophet mohammed decreed that no other religion should be "permitted" in Arabia. In large tracts of that islamic homeland, there's been all but a expulsion of other faiths. Find me a church in Saudi Arabia. Find me a synagogue. Find me a Hindu temple. Show me where other creeds can proselytise. Show me where others' gospels can be spread. They've been removed not just from people's minds, from their sentiments, but from the physical territory - the "land". Where that hasn't happened - where certain states maintain a fragile secularism - they've often been subordinated to islam. Exceptions to this general rule shouldn't be exaggerated. So "land" isn't a neutral construct at all. It has potent religious symbolism. Islands in the Straits of Hormuz - outcrops of "land" - were illegally occupied by Shi'ia Iran: snatched from their sovereign owners the Sunni UAE. They are of propagandist and strategic importance in the ceaseless doctrinal (religious) contest between these two main, mutually hostile sects. This occupation remains unresolved - another UN failure actually. Land is inseparable from the faith that rules over it. Hostility towards Israel has nothing to do with human rights and little to do with "palestinian" orange groves and olive fields. But as far as it is about land, it's about "muslim land" that's "occupied" by infidel and hated Jews: people that the Qur'an - and hamas' Charter - requires muslims to demean or destroy. It's about part of the prophet's conquered, islamic domain, now repossessed by another faith.

A point about Al Qaida in KSA. I watched the Twin Towers' destruction on a TV screen in a barber's shop window; in Saudi. I thought it was a movie. It wasn't. The popular glee at this strike against America was impossible to ignore. Bin Laden "stupid"? The man's a folk-hero. And his religious beliefs entirely consistent with mainstream wahabbism. "Wahabbism" of course, being the "real islam".

Anybody care to argue that?

  on  02/02/09  at  04:37 AM    #174

Khaleroo, can't say much, but if you want to really understand the evil of Islam, read Smyrna, The Destruction of a City, 1922, by Marjorie Houspian Dobkin.  What Islam did to the Armenians was inhumane, HORRIBLE, and centuries of it.  Dhimmitude, they had to give house and board to Islamics who raped their daughters, they tried to dress them as boys to try to protect them,  Smyrna was the "Ornament of Asia," and these horrible Islamics invaded them over and over again, as they did Constaniple (Muhammod himself).  Inhumane, crimes against humanity.  Read it, centuries of evil, the Armenians were brutalized for centuries and then the slaughter between 1915 and 1923.  Read it and you will know.  And don't pretend it is lies, and don't come back with what the Christians did 500 years ago, note that date, 1922, and then 9/11.  Read it, and in my opinion, the rest of the world is at fault if they do not go into Turkey and right this wrong, the Final Crusade, Islam is pure and demonic evil, and now due to the internet, it is possible to bring this evil out the shadows. Just read it and make your own decision.  And this is not an isolated thing, it has been going on since Muhammod went up on that mountainside in 610 AD and started hearing voices.  Continuous inhumanity and crimes against mankind for fourteen centuries, is this Satan?

  on  02/02/09  at  07:37 AM    #175

Well if you think about it, what was even worse than that was the position the so called christian nations adopted by standing idly by and allowing the massacre, simply to protect their oil interests in Turkey.

I think that makes them just as culpable. The allies were powerful enough to wipe out the turks.

Its really sad, but in the world injustice prevails, and no one has to guts to stand up for what is right. Look at what is happening in Darfur to the non muslims, no one cares. If there was oil down there, you would see how fast the western powers would have taken military action. Or maybe if it were white poeple being raped and killed, im sorry, I know that doesnt sound nice, but i remember how quickly NATO went to the aid of the Croatians in Yugoslavia.

Islam probably is one of the worse things to happen to the world but if you believe in the Bible you will realise that they have an imprtant role to play in the fulfilment of many prophecies about the last days. The nature of that religion had to be that way so that propecies would be fulfilled, the most important one being the invasion of Israel.

  on  02/02/09  at  02:15 PM    #176

Or maybe if it were white poeple being raped and killed

They are -  in Zimbabwe and other parts of Africa.

What is anyone doing to stop Mugabe?

By the way the dirty secret is that China is supporting these rogue regimes that are practicing genocide. This has nothing to do with religion - just the quest for raw materials.  And if you think the British, Dutch, Italians, or French were bad for Africa...just wait.  This is the repressive nation that has practiced genocide against the Tibetans since 1950.

...standing idly by and allowing the massacre, simply to protect their oil interests

China has been creeping into Africa in a very methodical manner - slowly, but surely. Many countries wiithin Africa will become economic colonies of China while she rapes the continent of oil, minerals, gems, and agricultural products without regard to the human or environmental costs. 

Currently China is Ethiopias #1 trading partner.

Here is a news release concerning China's support of Mugabe.

Oil is involved in China's support of Somalian government

China is selling arms to the Sudanese government and it also has ties to oil in Khartoum

While the world is concentrating on the Middle East and Islam, there is another, more insidious venture further south.  Read this. 

Bangladesh - it’s a Muslum country, by in large. It’s filled with many poor people, but also many good Universites, doctors, lawyers and scientists, all strokes of people. A recent Bengali won the Nobel peace prize for creating ‘micro-loans.’ That’s just one example - they’re just people.

Bangladesh:  It's part of Commonwealth of Nations, has a Constitution, and Democracy. Hmm.  Commonwealth of Nations -Constitution - Democracy - Nobel Prize winner.  Coincidence?  I think not.

  on  02/02/09  at  06:41 PM    #177

Yes, you are right about China. There is a silent axis of powers that the world has yet to recognise, it consists of several nations. China, Russia and Iran.

These three countries have a secret agenda, that is to undermine American inluence and economic power in the world. Their ambition is to remove America as the number one super power in the world.

It will be a dark day for humanity the day that happens, I believe it is American military might that has restrained the militaristic forces of Islam in the world, since their agenda is world wide conquest by Islam through the use of force.

I know there are many people who will say all kinds of bad things about the US, but lets face it, historically, it is the only nation that has had the guts to stand up to mililtary bullies. It is also a nation that traditionally has had a very strong moral conscience although that has been undermined significantly in recent years.

  on  02/02/09  at  07:44 PM    #178

I fully understand David J's sentiments here, but may I respectfully make some extra points. The US's military muscle has indeed been crucial in keeping much of the otherwise warring world at bay. It's what defended Europe for decades - right up until the fall of the Berlin wall and the collapse of Communism, and beyond. Many European nations have had protection on the cheap. Even now, many (except for my own plus some others) are shamefully reluctant to carry their share of the military burden in Iraq and Afghanistan.  The US has policed the seas and the skies. This musn't be forgotten. The man who threw his shoe at George Bush had at least the freedom to lob his opinion. Though I do wonder what happened to his other shoe. Or whether he got the first one back. Either way, for the sake of his dignity I hope he laundered his socks.

Turning to Islam. This is not merely a military matter. It's an ideological one too. Islam, though it calls itself a "religion" (I think it's more of a mohammedan cult, actually) is a political manifesto as totalitarian and self-contained as Communism or Fascism. The thousands of Taliban - fairly crudly armed but well funded and able to keep a large force of foreign troops uncomfortably busy - that sally forth from their safe havens in Pakistan, are driven by a creed. An ideal. A view of the world and how it should be. An indignation at infidel meddling in their islamic affairs. The Afghhans have a certain reputation ("When you're wounded and lying on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Then roll on your rifle and blow out your brains, And go to your God like a soldier." - Kipling). Their mullahs are backing them (they lead their regiments from behind - they find it less exciting). We will not win there, or anywhere else, until we persuade them of the folly of their faith and until we show them something convincingly better. Can we do that? Yes we can; but not by force alone, which won't deter those who "embrace" death for the sake of 72 virgins (why 72, I wonder. That's a different one every day for 10 weeks, with two to spare. Seems odd to me that the paradisal view of so austere a cult should be so bordello-esque. Where it finally submits to lust.). Force alone won't do for those who reject all the conventional material trappings of western life that we might persuade them with. Or who wholly reject the notion of "democracy" where laws are made by men and women and not handed down - as per the Shari'ia - by Al'Lah.

So never mind just the stealth -bombers. Let's have a few stealthy arguments to go with them. Those are indeed as powerful as a loaded bomb-bay.

  on  02/03/09  at  04:31 AM    #179

In the end I think it is going to come down to a lot more than oil and territory, as I learn more about Islam I realize just how dark and evil it is.  And yes, The end of the American Empire was November 4th, 2008, in steady decline since 20 January 1977 and James Earl Carter, the Idiot who brought us all this ad hominem Dhimmicratic Pandering Lawyer Party cozying up to all minorities and now Illegal Immigrants to perpetuate their sorry corrupt socialist ways.

Thanks to our PCness, our (most expensive in the world) public schools teach nothing but drivel and only those who find out where to look (The Sword of the Prophet, Serge Trifkovic, Smyrna 1922, The Destruction of a City, Marjorie Houspian Dobkin, Unveiling Islam, Robert Spencer, ...) know the true darkness.  I feel it is a sin what Christian nations stood by during Smyrna and the rest of the oppression and genocide by the Ottoman Turks, and if you reak Smyrna you find out that the bad guy was Disraeli and the Brits and the good guy was Russia?  Russia was trying to protect the Armenians, and the Brits promoted slaughter.  Read the book.  Even now, it is immoral to let stand what the Islamic Turks did, and that territory they took, and for that whole matter all the middle east, and, yes, Palistine, this taken by Islamic murdurers, horror from hell.  Eventually we will have to face up to this evil, and know the Greatest Lie Ever Told: "Islam is a Religion of Peace."

  on  03/05/09  at  09:16 PM    #180

The War Prayerby Mark Twain

An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:

"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.

"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.

"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory--*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(*After a pause.*) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

  on  04/17/09  at  01:17 PM    #181

You are gay.

  on  05/20/09  at  03:52 PM    #182

hey man what do you think about the theory that we as cristians were bored? i mean this is around the time theaat cristiandom had stoped waging war on its self is it possable that the pope wnted rid of all the fanatics in his lands so he sent them off to take the holy lands ? also the musilims had as you said waged many campaigns in the west probably for the same reasson they were bored peace was boring so we decided a war was in order. thanks.

  on  05/20/09  at  06:49 PM    #183

Rather than indulge in a lot of name calling, I hope that all, especially Muslims, look at their past, and look at where they are going, and ask themselves, what is right and what is wrong, and is there any difference as observed by their Maker, between Muslims, Christians, Jews, women,.... or are we all bound by the same Maker and principles? And if it comes down to "Slay the Unbeliver in all strategems...." a la Sura 9:5, a very sad thing for all of us.  Surely we can do better than that in this year of 2009.  I hope that the majority of Muslims are Critical Thinkers who can lead their people to their betterment, and for all, Jews, Christians, Muslims, for all of us to be a more prosperous and non-combattant people.  You must cast aside the truculant and agenda-driven ones, and the religious fanatics to do this.

r   on  06/01/09  at  06:26 PM    #184

This heled me with my 7th grade Global studies packet!

  on  10/31/09  at  09:22 AM    #185

this page didnt help me

  on  12/21/09  at  12:06 PM    #186

THE RESON OF CRUSADE WAR WHICH IS STATED ABOVE IS MIXUP AND MY FRIEND DIDNT TOLD THE TRUTH AND WRITE THOSE WHICH FAVOURS HIM AND WITHOUT ANY REFRENCE.

THERE WAS 4 CRUSADE WARS HELD BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND CRISTIAN AND SOME REASON ARE:

RELEGIOUS REASONS:

PALESTINE IS IMPORTANT PLACE FOR MUSLIMS AND CRISTIANS BOTH.PALESTINE  CONQURED BY 2ND KHALIFA UMMAR WITHOUT ANY BATTLLE.AFTER THAT MUSLIMS GAVE THEM FULL RIGHTS TO COME THERE AND WORSHIP ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN RELEGION IN THEIR TEMPLES AND THEY ARE FULLY FREE TO SERVE PERFOM THEIR GOVERNMENT JOBS IN SHORT THEY WERE TREATED AS THEY ARE MUSLIMS TOO.

BUT WHEN CHRISTIANS FROM EUROPE VISIT PALESTINE THEY CANT BEAR IT THAT THEIR HOLY TEMPLES UNDER MUSLIMS COMMAND ALTHOGH THEY HAVE FULLY RIGHTS.WHEN THEY CAME BACK TO EUROPE THEY TOLD THEIR PEOPLE THE FAKE STORIES OF MUSLIMS CRUELITY ON CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS ARE TAKING DOUBLE TAXES FROM CRISTIANS AND SO ON...THATS WHY PEOPLES IN EUROPE THINK THAT MUSLIMS ARE CRUEL WHICH IS NOT TRUE.

POLITICAL REASON:

MUSLIMS ARE ADVANCING IN WORLD AND WINNING IN BATTELS AND SPREADING THEIR LANDS.IN 1094 MICHEAL DOCHAS THINK THAT MUSLIM MIGHT CONQUER HIS LANDS,HE ASKS EUROPE TO DEFEND HIM.URBAN SAANI THE POPE ON THAT TIME FIND A A GOLDEN CHANCE START A CRUSADE WAR AGAINST MUSLIMS.

POPE ARBAN SAANI AND MANY OTHER POPES LOST THEIR DIGNITY AND POPULARITY AMONG THEIR PEOPLE.AT THAT TIME CHRISTIANS WERE DIVIDED IN 2 GROUPS 1 WAS ROMAN CATHOLIC WHO ABIDE POPE AND 2ND ATHEN TEMPLER AND THEY WERE AGAINST EACHOTHER.IN 1071 ALIP ARSLAN DEFEATED ARMANOUS.NOW POPE FIND A SOLUTION TO GET THEIR DIGNITY BACK AND POPULARITY AMONG THEIR PEOPLE.SO THEY ENCOUARGE CRISTIANS TO FIGHT AGAINST MUSLIMS AND GET THEIR HOLY PLACES BACK AND IF THEY DIE THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN AND MANY OTHER  THINGS.

FINANCIALLY REASON:IN OLD TIME MERCHANTS FROM ITALY AND GENEVA WERE DOING THEIR BUSINESS FROM MIDDLE EAST.AFTER ISLAMIC REVOLUTION MUSLIMS COVERD THE MOST OF MARKETS IN MIDDLE EAST AND MERCHANTS FROM ITALY AND GENEVA SLOWLY LOST THEIR POSITIONS AND THEIR REPUTATION   IN EAST.THOSE MERCHANTS THOUGHT THAT WITH HELP OF CRUSADE WARS THEY CAN REGAIN THEIR PLACE IN MARKETS,SO THEY FINAANCE CRUSADRES.AT THAT TIME IN EUROPE WHICH WHO WAS RICH WAS VERY RICH AND WHICH WHO WAS POOR WAS VERY POOR.SO THEY THOUTH IF THEY WIN THIS WAR THEY WILL FIND A PERFECT LIFE IN EAST.APART FROM THAT IT WAS ANNOUNCED THAT THOSE WHO WILL PARTICIPATE IN THIS HOLY WAR WILL BE TAX FREE IN FUTURE.POPE WILL VANISH THEIR SIN WITH THEIR PRAYERS IF THEY FIGHT.SO ROBBERS,RAPIST AND KILLERS WERE HAPPILY AGREED TO JOIN THIS HOLY WAR BECOZ THEY THINK THAT IN THIS WAY THEIR SINS WILL VANISH AND THEY WILL FIND BETTER LIFE AND IF THEY DIE THEY WILL GO TO HEAVEN.

IN 26TH OF DECEMBER 1095 POPE ARBAN SAANI DECLARE CRUSADE WAR AGAINST MUSLIMS AT CLEAR MOUNT (FRANCE).

IN ABOVE I WRITE THOSE REASON WHICH I FIND IN THE BOOK I LEFT SO MANY OTHERS.BUT IF NEED IT IN FUTURE I WILL WRITE IT DOWN BUT DONT ARGUE WITH ME WITOUT ANY PROVE OR REFRENCE.I FOUND THIS BOOK ON A LIBRARY IN LONDON WHICH IS ANCIENT AND APPROVED BY MANY CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS  WITH THEIR COMMENTS AND SIGHN TOO.

THANKS

  on  12/22/09  at  09:23 AM    #187

In #186 above was written:

"PALESTINE IS IMPORTANT PLACE FOR MUSLIMS AND CRISTIANS BOTH.PALESTINE  CONQURED BY 2ND KHALIFA UMMAR WITHOUT ANY BATTLLE.AFTER THAT MUSLIMS GAVE THEM FULL RIGHTS TO COME THERE AND WORSHIP ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN RELEGION IN THEIR TEMPLES AND THEY ARE FULLY FREE TO SERVE PERFOM THEIR GOVERNMENT JOBS IN SHORT THEY WERE TREATED AS THEY ARE MUSLIMS TOO."

But we all know that it is easier to make up history than read it.  On page 44 of The Legacy of Jihad, by Andrew Bostom, there is:

"...the whole Gaza region up to Cesarea was sacked and devastated in the campaign of 634.  Four thousand Jewish, Christian and Samaritan peasants who defended their land were massacred.   ....Towns such as Jerusalem, Gaza, Nablus.... were isolated and closed their gates....Sophronius, in his sermon on the Day of the Epiphany 636, bewailed the destruction of the churches and monasteries, the sacked towns, the fields laid waste, the villages burned down by the nomads who were overunning the country....Thousands perished in 639, victims of the famine and plague that resulted from these destructions...According to the Muslim chronicler Baladhure, 40,000 Jews lived in Caesarea alone at the Arab conquest, after which all trace of them is lost......It appears that the period of the conquest was also that of the destruction of the synagogues and churches of the Byzantine era, remnants of which have been unearthed in our own time and are still being discovered."

On page 84 of The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam, by Bat Ye'or, there is:

"The Caliph Walid, who detested Christians, ordered the demolition of several chruches and their replacement by mosques.....during the caliphate of al-Mutawakkil a wave of religious persecution, forced conversions, and the elimination of churches and synagogues plagued the whole Ab basid Empire.....Muhammod al Mudabbir arrived in Egypt as minister of finance (861), coming from Palestine where he had long subjected the inhabitants to every kind of misery.  He tripled the jizya (non-Muslim poll tax) on Christians and Jews 'so that he filled the prisions in every place'.  He ordered churches to be pillaged and confiscated for the diwan (Islamic treasury).....In Algiers, Consul d'Arviewu noted in 1660:  'Although there are a large number of Jews [ten to twelve thousand] they have very few synagogues.  The Turks, who despise them to the higest degree, do not willingly allow them these places of Assembly and make them pay a considerable tribute for them......page 171:  In ninteenth-century Islamic societies, the inequality between dhimmis and Muslims constituted not only an ideological and juridical dogma, it also corrupted the whole system of relationships in daily life.  Muslims, therefore, interpreted the concepts of rights and equality as a subversive heresy forced on Christendom in order to weaken Islam.  The reforms, particularly those concerning religious equality, met violent opposition."

And on and on it goes, the above but a small sampling of the horrors and inhumanity commanded in their little minds in the name of Allah.  The last part reveals that this evil and hatred, religious fanaticism, is deep-rooted and has been preached for over a millenium.  Even today, the Muslim mainstream has not renounced this evil; the silence, the lies, the tacit support of evil.  If there is indeed that "Day of Reckoning," in which all fourteen centuries of the acts of Muslims, as commanded by the Qur'an, are held up for review and judgement, I would not want to be a Muslim.  And how pitiful those billions who have been slaughered since the seventh century in the name of Allah.