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A BRIEF BREAK FROM MY VACATION FROM BLOGGING.
This vacation I'm taking from blogging is working. As I posted previously, I have a major case of blogger burnout, and thanks to guest blogger Don Bridge, whose posts I am greatly enjoying, I'm recovering nicely. One indication that the recovery is going well is that there are brief moments when the need to blog is returning. I'm going to give myself a break from my vacation long enough to post this.
Last night, I had a conversation with a friend who expressed disbelief when I said that the Koran instructs people to kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. She just flat-out didn't believe it. I said I'd send her some links. Just two months earlier I'd had a similar conversation with another friend. Here are the links I sent to my friend last night:
From the Koran:
[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
It's inevitable that such a document would lead to an entirely different culture -- a culture in which women are stoned to death and people are raised to go out and kill women and children. I personally have met Muslims who live a reformed version of Islam that rejects the literal meaning of such verses, and who support freedom and America. However, the Islamofascists are merely carrying out the literal instructions of the Koran.
#1
#2I note your use of the word, "hysterics." The use of an insult appears to me to indicate that you do not feel you can rely on the facts to make your case.
Please quote the verses in the Christian Bible to which you are referring, including the chapter and verse reference.
#3Ah, Mumbo offers the classic "So's your mother!" argument.
One can see that the level of intellectual discourse in The Mumbo Household is very high.
Evidently Mr mumbo is unacquainted with the Christian Bible. We have the Old Testament and the New Testament. The OT speaks of God's covenant with Israel; the NT, of Christ's mission here on earth. The Koran has no such division. It's all appplicable to all Muslims.
I challenge anyone to find anything in the Koran (or the hadith, or the sunna that comes anywhere close to this in 1 Corinthinas Ch 11: "... though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. ... And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."
#5Truth hurts Mumbo. The bible prohibits the taking of life. It is clear to me and to any not blinded with guilt (librelism) that islam is a doctrine/method of death, Christianity is of life.
#6Brother rot you are so right...in fact you all are i totally agree with Brother rot... plus what kind of relign would prohibit murder and slaying a fellow human being...if Christians began doing that i would feel hypicticle and a bit betrayed...
#7if u guys actually read da whole of the quran u wud understand dat it prohibits
da killings of innocents man. But yet 4rm a holy book u pick out da things dat wud affend ppl. yet 4get 2 tell others, wot else is writin in da quran bout killing!!!!!!!!!!
#8Please quote some of the passages in the Koran that you have in mind, Yo Dude.
#9AL-BAQARA 190
And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
4.16. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
9.51. Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.
And also the bible has fings writin bout non believers to
cast them into the fire etc.
And y is dis site just descriminatin islam for ???????????????????????????????????????
#10The quotes you cite do not prohibit killing of non-Muslims.
And also the bible has fings writin bout non believers to cast them into the fire etc.
There are no passages in the Bible which can be interpreted as a requirement for those of Judeo-Christian faith, as a way of life, to murder and oppress those of other faiths. On the other hand, there are many passages in the Bible requiring men to love their neighbor - and nothing similar is to be found in the Koran.
#11P.S.
And y is dis site just descriminatin islam for ??????
Why do so many Muslims blow up planes, trains, cars, restaurants, and other public places, in the name of Islam?
#12seriously get a lyf man
u peeps seem sad.
idea
go outr wen u see a muslim
ask dem y dey do dese fings
k u'll get ur ansa
#13Yo Dude, Muslims are taught hatred. The book that they worship preaches hatred. That is the point and the evidence is within its own pages. You can't even defend it.
#14The Same Muslims are Tought that if your Neiigbour (regardless of his
religion) is Hungry and you sleep with a belly full you are not a
muslim...
the 40 houses around you are your neighbours
the same Prophet Says.. THe People of DHimma (responsibility) who live
under the Islamic State are Protected anyone who Hurts them Hurts me
The same BOok says.. DOnot Kill the Innocent for if you kill an innocent
its like you commited Genocide
the Same Book says.. Fight and Kill the Unbelivers when they War against
you ... and ones who lives by a peace pact must not be harmed by you
WHen you call others to Islam be most Poliet but yet it will hurt them
when a man said to the Prophet on that Day "Today is the Day of REvenge..
the Prophet said "Today is a day of Mercy" and removed that PErson from
his Position and gave the Command to another
The Quran says.. an eye for an eye a man for a man... but if you forgive
your Brother you Good deeds will remain with your God
The same book says.. those of you who free slaves wil get double the
reward for everything
The same book says... to give a smile when people look at you is also
charity
THe same Book says.. for those who mischive and spread terror on eart
must be dealt with ..
a man who steals for hurting you must be dealt with .. but if he stole
for he was hungry and feared starvation .. ther eis no sin on him
the same book says.. There is No Compultion in Religion ("You cannot
force others to convert")
the Prisionors of war of Badr where allowed to go free if they tought 10
children to read and write.. or plow the fields for a certain time...
the Rules of War.. in Islam Say .. that Kill the Enemy only if he Fights
against you and if anyof them want refuge with you give them and
transport them to a place of safety away from the war (conversion is not
required)
The same Prophet when COnqured Mecca said "No tree SHal be Cut down , nor
Feilds Burned.. not any man or woman or old or child hurt... fight only
those who draw arms against you .."
the same Book teaches us .. that God is not Kind to those who are not
Kind to others ..
as for the VErses mentioned above...
but when we read about warfare conducted by the Kings and the Prophets
(pbuh) as mentioned in the Old Testiment.. they Go beyond the RUles and
REgulations of War .. and change into Massacre
1 Samuel 15:3-4
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that
belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children
and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "
4 So Saul summoned the men and mustered them at Telaim—two hundred
thousand foot soldiers and ten thousand men from Judah.
------------------------
Deutronomy 20:13-20
13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword
all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and
everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for
yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from
your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at
a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you
as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17
Completely destroy [a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites,
Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God
Numbers 31:7-21
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed
every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the
five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.
9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all
the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the
towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11
They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals,
12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the
priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by
the Jordan across from Jericho
(Once again my Answer is not to Provoke anger and my purpose is not to
hurt the feelings of any jews or christians brotheren by mentioning this
.. but to show when verses are taken out of context the meanings
dramatically change .....)
Thanks to my peronal God, The Universal Mind, that I am not a relious person. People today fight over ancient words, beliefs and customs and won't let go of the past. If they had their way we'd be living in caves. I see very little Love or Tolerance in any religion, except buddism and Hinduism. I learn from all scripture, ALL of them. I take what is good to me and leave what isn't. I belong to none. Nno silly Dogma for me, thanks. I have a brain. No syupid rituals, nothing to get offended about and nothing to kill or die for. The Beatles were right when they said ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE...naive maybe, but right. Love washes away anger, so if anyone has real love you would not feel anger. Love over-rides customs and ancient writings, if you have Love you don't need such things. Love cannot be divided up into denominations, groups or religions. Love is Love. It lives in everything. I hope you all find it soon. Life is short, the years will pass quickly, so don't follow others. Everything you need is within you.
#16Cute. Passages from the verses of forgiveness and pardon. Ignoring the fact they were written BEFORE the sword verses, where "allah" revealed revelations such as..
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans
wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them
in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers
and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving,
Most Merciful (9:5)."
See, when Mohammad was weak, his revelations were all about peace and forgiveness. Once he achieved a position of strength, miraculously his revelations
changed to more warlike, and less forgiving.
There is a lesson in there for the West. Of course it's a "religion of peace" right now. Give it time. Then the sword verses will take effect.
Then we have the Hadiths
"I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the
right to be worshiped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be
worshiped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for
Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah (either to punish him or to
forgive him.)" (4:196 )
That's pretty clear intent to convert or die. Quite a change from "no forced conversions"
#17the Prophet Says.. THe People of DHimma (responsibility) who live
under the Islamic State are Protected anyone who Hurts them Hurts me
The same BOok says.. DOnot Kill the Innocent for if you kill an innocent
its like you commited Genocide
#18oh, get off your high horse! i suppose you can justify conquering lands and murdering civilians when it was done in the name of jesus christ during the christian crusades?
seriously, get a clue! it isn't about religion. islam, judaism, christianity - they all essentially say the same thing actually. it's what people do from there. especially what people do to each other... that is where mistrust and hate is breeded. not by jesus, and not by muhammed.
you sound like an ignorant, arrogant mouthpiece with an incredible sense of tunnel vision who does nothing all day but write revisionist history. get over your self-righteous ignorance and go talk to a few people who are different than you - it might just open your mind slightly.
#19Houran, if only it was that simple, it is not, it is divenly ordained lying, it has a name, and that name is al Taqiyya. You will hear this over and over, stuff like "If you kill a single human, then you have killed all of mankind." You, the world, are my laboratory, as I pretend to know nothing of Islam, and although, thanks to Political Correctness, I am forbidden, as are you, to discuss these most important matters at work, and that is where we are the most of the time, I can talk to fellow travelers going my way, at shops, malls,...And Refuse to Submit, good man, you know the truth, and you know that it is your duty, morally and righteous, to spread the truth, quash the lies, as we Americans are a very indolent people, choking to death on Political Correctness. Our media, except for Fox, spreads nothing but PC Scrubbed drivel, our academic institutions are utterly useless, populated by feckless liberals, and so the man on the street has this fairy tale myopia as to the world he lives in. Lies, and dooming their spawn.Last week, I go into a grocery store, and the cashier is Kavita. I ask, "Kavita, where are you from......India......Is everything ok over there, have things calmed down......It is very bad over there (head shakes, sad....) ....who is doing this?......The Muslims, they just want to kill everyone." I play my little version of al Taqiyya, I ask leading questions, in the spirit of the Scientific Method, I have a hypothesis, and I seek to validate its veracity by conducting experiments, and the people I meet, strangers, you are my data. The same grocery store, three days ago, is Rahat (?) who is behind the same counter, she is talking to the bagger, who asks "How long will you be here.....6....Who relieves you.....Kavita..." I ask, "Rahat, are you from India.....no, I am from Pakistan.....why all the trouble between Pakistan and India, this is not good, Pakistan has nuclear weapons....we used to be the same country, but in 1947 we split (I know but do not say that Pakistan was created simply as a state for Muslims, and do not say what I know about the Islamic Conquest of HinduStan, see http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/32812 )...So why do you not get along, why just not let these problems go (of course, I know it is the Quran, but feign ignorance, just a country boy who just fell off a turnip truck)...no, it will always be this way (sad, head shakes), they will always fight".
#20Two days ago, at a huge local mall, multilevel parking lot, and I am trying to figure out how to get down to the level my car is parked (you need GPS to find your way out of this thing to find the highway), and an Islamic man approaches, and I think, yes, they are here, is this man a threat? But this man is smiling, and it becomes apparant to me that this is a nice man, and then I see that he has the uniform of the mall on, he is there to help me find my car, as it is clear to him that I am lost, "Can I help you....I am trying to find the srair well to the the second level....It is right over there (points)...thank you, where are you from....Morocco....Is that a nice country ....(shakes head, smiles)....no, it is not.....The Muslims?...yes....So good for you, you escaped...(smiles, nods his head....the Muslims, the 60ish percent who are not the hard core fanatically demonic, especially the women, no contributions from them but their bodies, their intellectual assets ignored....This single fact, ignoring all the other horrible things about Islam as such, as defined by the Quran, this one thing dooms this as a failed civilization, and they know it, and resented the twin towers as a symbol of American dominance and superiority, likewise Hollywood, as it flaunts in their faces our civiliazation, and they know they have no Teslas, Newtons, Beethovens, and they have shame, and they hate us for it, they are unable to look inwards and see that it is their religion that dooms them.
Then there is Zara Clothing above, and over and over in other places on this blog, on www.danielpipes.org blog, in the streets, saying this peaceful stuff about Islam, they are encouraged by what they see of Americans, the indolence, the political correctness, the feel good drivel that they hear and see on the CBS Evening News, and elsewhere, they see November 4th what the American People did, and they feel emboldened, so they say stuff like Zara says over and over, al Taqiyya, It is ok to lie, cheat, steal, and kill to the Unbeliever, but not so to Believers. They are almost illiterate, sometimes, and pretend to be good people. But, although I have not been in a mosque, and I am aware that there are fourteen verses of the Quran that forbid becoming a friend of the Unbeliever, and so I know I will not hear anything but deception from most Muslims, I suspect very strongly that in those mosques, they are taught al Taqiyya, to tell Unbelievers these peaceful verses of Mecca, when Mohammed was not strong, so he practiced dar al Sulh, telling these peaceful verses, but fully knowing that they were abrogated by the Verse of the Sword. Divinly ordained lying, by the Quran, and us simple mostly good generous people, the Americans, nod our heads, yes, all people are good, multiculturalism, they do not understand that there are many good Muslims, the majority, in fact, but that demonic 30ish pecent, they the hide - in - plain - sight Islamic Trojan Horses.
#21So maybe a month ago, I encountered al Taqiyya, in a Mulim - owned and operated restaurant, take out sort of thing. I do not tell them that I have read book after book on Islam, they can try to deceive me, and I just smile and grin and nod and grunt pleasantly, that little ole country boy that just fell off a turnip truck schtik, they probably would tell me that if my IQ ever reaches 50, then I should sell. I just let them tell me whatever they wish, and they do seem to be quite charming and nice folks, and maybe they are. But you do know what Winston Churchill said about Islam, do you not? "The greatest retrograde force in the history of mankind is Islam....while individual Moslems may show splendid individual qualities, all who follow this religion fail to progress socially..." For the exact quote, and while you are there, read the quote from John Quincy Adams on Islam, and then get your arms around two things that have changed since their words were spoken: Petrodollars and the world's highest birth rates. They tell me "In Islam, the Quran tells us that to kill a single human being is to kill all of mankind." They do not suspect that I know, and I also know that they know this as well, that in Islam, they have two books of the Quran, the earlier book of Mecca, and the much more violent and truculent book of Medina. And so all this prattle and pablum like cited above, this is from the first book. But in Islam, there is no possiblilty that anything in the Quran can be wrong, the Quran to them is not an INTERPRETATION of the words of god, it is the actual word of god, it cannot be interpreted, it can only be obeyed. Absolute. And so when there are contradictions between the first and second books, and there are, since the word of god cannot be wrong, this is handled by the principle of Abrogation, this meaning, the latter verse, chronologically, supercedes the earlier. And the very latest chapter, just like Beethoven's final symphony, that would be Sura 9, and the Verse of the Sword, the "Convert, or Die, or submit to Dhimmitude" verse, that is sura 9:5.
#22So, Refuse to Submit, and Vic Rubenstein, and Daniel Pipes at www.danielpipes.org you are doing a wonderful thing, a critical thing for survival. I close by giving you these few words from Serge Trifkovic's "Defeating Jihad," the sequel to "The Sword of the Prophet." Here it is for you, and you must tell everyone you know of this, as we Americans and others are committing suicide due to indolence, Pollyannaish naivity, and intellectual bankrupcy. From page 42:
"All conquered lands were duly transformed into the HOUSE of ISLAM, where umma has been established, while the rest of the world belonged to the House of War inhabited by harbis. As for remaining unconquered lands and cultures, the House of Islam is in a permanent state of war with the lands that surround it. The never ending war can be interrupted by truces, but peace will only come with the completion of global conquest. There is an intermediate stage known as Dar al Sulh – when the Muslims are a minority community and need to adopt temporarily a peaceful attitude in order to deceive their neighbors. Mecca before Muhammad’s move to Medina is the model for which the Muslim diaspora in the Western world provides contemporary example. The model was provided by Muhammad, who accepted a truce wth Mecca when he was in an inferior position but broke it as soon as his recuperated strength allowed. Then he offered his pagan compatriots the choice of conversion or death. The final objective all along is Dar al Islam, where Muslims dominate and infidels are converted or massacred: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful (9:5)." This “the Verse of the Sword” allows only one way out for pagans to be spared from being slain: to become Muslims. Islamic scholars agree that this single verse abrogates 124 earlier verses – the ones that are quoted most regularly by Islam’s apologists to prove its tolerance and benevolence as a ‘religion of peace’”.
#23And finally, some great thinkers on Islam, in the vein of those not knowing history are doomed to repeat it:***ALEXIS DE TOCQVILLE (FRENCH THINKER/HISTORIAN) “I studied the Kuran a great deal … I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammed.”
***EARNEST RENAN (FRENCH THINKER) “Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain others in the practice of this religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him.”***PROF BERTRAND RUSSELL (PHILOSOPHER) “Over a billion people believe in Allah without truly knowing what Allah supposedly stands for or what he really demands of them. And the minority that do understand continue to be Moslems because they have redefined their morality and ethics to fit within the teachings of Islam, which are floridly lacking in morality. They therefore redefine what is good and evil in order to fit their lives into what is preached by Islam, instead of examining Islam to see if it fits within the good life. Backwards thinking, imposed by a backward religion”.
#24what ever happens Islam is the only religon that was born with a proper foundation and solid structure which will remain untill the day of judgement and we follows of islam will alway welcome the non belivers to accept islam before its to late so we all succed in this world and here after which is our final place after this life.this is what islam isall abt to spread the message of prophat (Peace be Upon Him).
we deal with situation very carefully with the Guidance of Allah (SWT).
#25Islam prevails means Satan prevails. Muhammod went up on that mountain in 610 AD and it was Satan who resonated in him, and he is Satan's prophet. Deeply demonic evil, darkness falls if Islam prevails. And that is all this is, Good vs. Evil, and Islam's most powerful weapon is its divenly - ordained (al Taqiyya) Lie Cheat Steal Kill the UnBeliever my using his goodness against him.
Joy! Joy, bright spark of divinity, daughter of Elysium, fire – inspired we tread thy sanctuary. Thy magic power re-unites all that custom has divided, All men become brothers under the sway of thy gentle wings. (Ludwig van Beethoven, Symphony # 9 in D Minor, Opus 125, (Choral), 1824, Symphonic rendition of Frederick Schiller's Ode to Joy)
#26Satan is known as the deceiver. Jews are god's choosen people.
Therefore, Jesus was actually satan who have lead mankind away from the truth!
JK
I am an atheist and cannot believe the ######## that christians are throwing out these days.
Seems like the crusades will soon be the norm again! Indeed, christians killing non-believers.
Luke 19:27 (King James Version)27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Sure, you can say that this is taken out of context,
BUT are you all not doing the same with the Koran????
#27freemanexc, you are asking a very good question. The answer is that, in context, in the Koran, these things mean exactly what they appear to mean. You can read multiple Islamic translations side-by-side of each verse of the Koran on the USC web site.
#28vik rubenfeld,
I believe what you wish to believe. The god of the jews, christians and muslims is the same god of destruction! Smashing babies heads into the rocks! Sounds like a wonderful god to me Once you believers of the magical deity accept the fact that it is just another mythological story, then the world could then live in peace. You know the song -- John Lennon - Imagine!!!!
#29Prayer to end this new age of greed and coward death.
"And again my chieftans will stroll the Gaulic Plain. The Agreement, again is broken by the forked tongues of the "Kings" from the East of here. By the sword is the lone way to our victory. We have been given the light of the Holy One and His only Son. That light is the provisor of His plan and with it we from the North will again do a Holy Battle. No bomb. No dagger to slice. No weakling gun. Only that which our Lord has demanded that we are warranted with; the quick sword, the scrimshaw, the axe. All from our trade in the forest. All from the tools of our ships. Arisen from Asgard, our blades of God will slice through all who destroy our trade from the sea. For He has given us the riches of the land and blessed our fathers and their fathers and our mothers and their mothers, and our brothers and our sisters. For those blessings we pay homage in the strength He has given us. We are the many arms of Eleazar. Our swords will never fall from our hands until long after the last weak Godless man falls to the dust and their blood has dried on the Holy Gaulic Plain. Brothers! We bear no colors. We bear no herald, but that of the one true King. Our only symbol it be, is the white flower of death upon a golden skin. Warriors of the lessor, beware. And if you want, our rage will again befall this land and we shall again spread our own fear. For we have tamed the beast and beaten him into the dust before. Our fifteen hundred years of rest has let us grow. We feel our halls within the chambers of our ancient ruins. Bend to our will and make fertile the land.... or perish."
#30http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Uswa_Hasana
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Muhammad
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Are_Judaism_and_Christianity_as_Violent_as_Islam?
#31@zara clothing
THERE IS NO VERSE IN THE QURAN THAT SAYS:
" Do not Kill the Innocent for if you kill an innocent its like you commited Genocide"
Many Islamic apologists will present you with this (MIS-QUOTED) version. Here is the actual verse:
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity. Qur'an 5:32
Ignoring the fact that a strictly literal reading of this verse, shows that this instruction is for the "Children of Israel" (i.e. Jews) What constitutes spreading “mischief” in Islam? Looking to other verses found within the Quran, (7:103 for example) mischief can and does apply to someone who simply does not accept Islam. We can go further still, and look towards the respected Tafsir of Ibn Kathir where he states that an exegesis of the text of this verse, shows that it is specifically condemning the murder of Muslims at the hands of other Muslims, not non-Muslims.
#32In Christianity there is no command to resist others through violent methods. jesus taught to love ones enemies not to kill those who don't follow Christianity or who disagree.
#33It's amazing that of all the supposed scholars here, the only one who addresses the real issues and intimates a solution is the Athiest! WOW! Once we admit that all these ancient books were written by men with their own personal agendas and not 'divinely inspired', we may be able to get out from under the thumbs of the current 'believers and leaders' with their own personal agendas. If people would use common sense to make their decisions, and not ask 'WWJD?" (or Moses or Mohammad) they would be able to make decisions based on what is right and fair. Religion is used as a crutch for those unable to make thier own decisions. Religion is used as an excuse to take what otheres have in the name of God. And, religion is used by those Islamic leaders whose people have been abused by the west for generations as an excuse to get back at us under jihad. As long as religion is used as a tool of the fanatics, and people are gullible enouigh to believe them, we are doomed. Educating people to the facts; historical backgrounds of religious leaders like Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad, what was happening at the time that made people want to hear them and follow them, and who really wrote these books and when the books about them and when they were written would open many eyes. Don't get me wrong, their are good lessons in all the books. But the reality is that these lesson books have become the biggest weapons of mass destrction on earth.
The comments here have been an excellent testament as to why the Bible commands not to argue and strive pointlessly with men of little faith, whether within the church or without. Commit good deeds and live a righteous, inspired life worth living, sharing the Word of Life when opportunities present themselves and let the final judgment separate the chaff from the grain.
P.S. It's very convenient to point the finger at the misdeeds of false Christians of centuries past in your misguided justification of atheism while ignoring the horrendous acts of mass murder and genocide at the hands of atheistic regimes of recent history isn't it Freemanexc? A tactic I see all too often in the arguments of those without conviction or purpose such as yourself. The truth is you are little differant than the Christians and Muslims commenting here that you seem to hold in such low esteem.
#35Exactly is not Atheism just another form of Religion. When true Christianity is actually far from Religion its based on a relationship withones own faith and basically doing the right thing. Our Messiah Jesus Christ or what you may call a just a man is still a someone that all should follow his example and Just love one another because is you ask WWJD. The answer always boils down to loving the other in one way or another. YOu atheist screeam and cry for your rights to not have a religion. When no-one has forced you to pray or believe anything you dont want to. WOW! Not even our LOrd and Savior does that he gives the choice but yet. You want to rant and rave and take away our rights to believe and have faith.
#36"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69).
"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).
Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)
And We caused Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow in the footsteps of those (earlier prophets), confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah; and We sent him the Gospel, wherein there was guidance and light, confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah, and as a guidance and admonition unto the God-conscious. (Quran 5:46)
#37I SEEN THAT SOME NUMBSKULL SAID THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SAID TO KILL NON-CHRISTIANS WHICH IS INCORRECT AND EVEN IF IT DID SAY THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT ALL OTHER RELIGIONS HAVE EVOLVED PAST THE BARBARIC BELIEFS OF HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO BUT ISLAM JUST CANNOT SEEM TO LET IT GO NOR CAN THEY EVOLVE SO THAT IS WHY ISLAM IS SO DANGEROUS.
ISLAM IS A POLITICAL TOOL THAT IS USED TO KEEP PEOPLE AFRAID AND ENSLAVED TO THE WORD AND THAT IS WHY RELIGION AND POLITICS IS SO ENTANGLED IN ISLAM SO LEADERS CAN USE FEAR OF ALLAH TO KEEP THE PEOPLE IN LINE.
THE WHOLE WORLD IS STILL WAITING FOR MUSLIMS TO EVOLVE PAST THE MEDIEVAL TIMES BELIEF SYSTEM BUT THEY ARE A LITTLE SLOW TO COME AROUND AND ALL THE DICTATORS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES WOULD BE OUT OF A JOB IF THE PEOPLE EVER DID EVOLVE.
The problem between the Quran and the Bible is that, yes the Old Testament does say to stone your disobediant kids etc, but then came the New Covenant, a Covenant of GRACE. The quran has no Old or New Testament, it all runs together. Yes, I understand under the Law of Moses, to be obediant to it (THELAW was impossible , so along comes the Son of God, who is the WORD, made flesh, he said, I have not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it, for no man could live up to all the rules that the Jews came up with stemming from the 10 Commandments.
The Quran is one running dialog of mixed messages, smile at others when you pass them, but keep your women out of the public for they are less than. They are baby-makers PERIOD. I had a Mulim roomate who was as harmless as a fly, but we see very few EXTREMIST Christians running around beheading people. They still do that today. When is the last time te Klu Klux (idiaots) beheaded ANYONE ON NATIONAL TV? Violence begets violence so as they keep teahing their little ones to hate the infidel and kill him where you find him and we are trying to open up the Bible to all to see, God didn't make all the stories in the Bible perfect, he spoke what was real through true men of God. Tell you the truth, I believe Mohammed had a Bible in the cave with him for too, too many verses in the quran line up almost to every jot, nodd, and tittle of what the Bible is saying. Don't believe me google Bible and quran similarities, see for yourself. T
#39Koran / Quran / Islam Bible all i can say its a Devil god .. how can so call God order thier followers to kill others and force them to believe in them ... WTF
#40these verses have been twisted by idiots like terry jones
buy a koran and read it.
#41Joe, please take a look at this post:
A Brief Introduction To Islam, Using The Words Of The Islamic Holy Texts
The Christian Bible offers similar instructions to murder non-Christians. Why aren't you also in hysterics over that?